use fire barriers to divide existing large bldg area into fire areas?

[syarn]

existing 270,000 sf shopping center; 1 story; nfpa13 fire sprinklers; type IIb; IBC 2009;

40 linear feet of the 3160 sf open perimeter is less than 40 feet deep; another 690 LF of open perimeter is less than 60 feet deep;

existing 7 mercantile (M) tenants; 1 newer, existing restaurant (A2) 2200sf tenant with 2 exit doors directly to the exterior.

our task is too add another restaurant (A2) 2500sf with 1 exit door to the exterior and the rear exit door to a 180 ft long exit passageway to exit doors to the outside.

Do demising walls of each tenant functioning as fire barriers dividing the spaces into fire areas comply with code?

are fire walls required to create smaller allowable bldg areas?

 

[rktect 1]

How'd the building get this big without fire walls?

Should already have fire walls right? So where are they and what size in area do these fire walls create. Then figure out how much space is leftover for the new A2.

 

[steveray]

There is no way around height and area for a building with all of the increases (sprinklers, perimeter, etc) unless it is allowed to be unlimited area or you create separate buildings via firewalls.....fire barriers will get you out of sprinklers sometimes by reducing fire area size or occupant load........big difference between fire area and building area....

 

[Coug Dad]

Are the other buildings part of the same development? Could the 60 foot clear space be taken around all of the buildings combined?

 

[AegisFPE]

With the 2009, Section 402 now addresses open mall buildings and reduced open space, both which may be applicable.

With regard to the 180-foot exit passageway, shouldn't the travel distance be measured to the door leading into the exit passageway? I am not aware that the code limits the distance of travel within an exit enclosure.

 

[syarn]

coug dad

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8MIb4l-3dteN2E3MGNmMTMtZDJmYi00MGY0LWI2YzctODYyMjg5MGZkZWU5&hl=en_US

all the buildings are connected to each other. 3 separate landlords. per the link above I believe that is the way I am analyzing the large bldg by taking it around all the properties together.

aegisFPE

will peruse section 402. thx u.

yes I calculate the 250 feet travel distance to the first exit door out the front.....and yes I agree that measuring the travel distance to the rear exit would be just to the door into the exit passageway.

 

[mark handler]

Syarn

Can you get a permanent no build open space easement where you have less than 40 feet?

 

[syarn]

mark

nice idea putting it on the fallback ("alamo") plan...thx u. sounds like a BIG league play...

going over to AHJs offices this week or first thing next week to peruse past permit sets to verify IF and where the fire walls are.....man I hope there's fire walls....oye veh...

 

[RLGA]

syarn:

To answer your original questions:

Q: Do demising walls of each tenant functioning as fire barriers dividing the spaces into fire areas comply with code?

A: If they are truly fire barriers, then, yes, they do divide the spaces within the confines of the fire barriers into individual fire areas. See the definition of a Fire Area in Section 902.1.

Q: are fire walls required to create smaller allowable bldg areas?

A: Yes. No other method is provided by the code to create smaller buildings from a single large building. See the definition of Building Area in Section 502.1.

 

[syarn]

ron

thx u.

steveray & rktect1 have anticipated my proposed strategy to justify, per the code, the additional restaurant into this large footprint WITHOUT using fire walls OR having an unlimited area building.

aegisfpe has an interesting angle with the covered / open mall building however the less than 40 ft of open perimeter at the one end of the complex appears to nix this plus need to verify if building still meets definition of mall. been told at one time this was a mall.

mr. handler's no build open space easement <40 feet certainly has merit IMO.

 

[RLGA]

Yes, definitely take a look at Section 402; specifically, Section 402.6 regarding the open space.