Use of code not yet adopted by state

[NCRooster]

I have a church project in NJ that will go into permitting approximately 1 year from now. The clients would like to have an all gender multi-stall bathroom, as it is important to their congregation. Unfortunately, this is not allowed under current NJ plumbing code, which is the 2021 NSPC NJ Edition. However, NJ will (very likely, given their 3-year adoption schedule) be adopting the 2024 NSPC in mid to late 2025, and this edition allows all gender bathrooms per 7.21.4 Exception 5. Is there a process for requesting the AHJ to consider a design that complies with a soon-to-be-adopted building code? If needed, we can design two separate bathrooms for permitting and then push through the revision once the 2024 code is adopted, but we would obviously prefer not to if there's a way to get the all gender bathroom approved.

Thanks in advance for any feedback! Happy to provide more details.

 

[mtlogcabin]

I would not authorize/approve a permit based on a code that has not been adopted.

 

[Joe.B]

I think a designer would have a good chance of getting this approved using a combination of 104.9 and 104.11. The key is presenting a good proposal with the request, the method, and the reasoning behind the proposal very clearly laid out. The AHJ will need that if they ever have to defend their actions later.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I usually see that the owners change the gender signs to all genders after they get the C. O. to get around this.

 

[mtlogcabin]

The codes use male and female which are specific and not fluid like the term gender. Until the code language changes what you are asking for is a common use unisex restroom by multiple male and female individuals users at the same time.

male​

adjective​

1. Of, relating to, or designating the sex that has organs to produce spermatozoa for fertilizing ova.

female​

adjective​

1. Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young.

And this is a church asking for this

 

[NCRooster]

Thanks all who have weighed in so far.

I think a designer would have a good chance of getting this approved using a combination of 104.9 and 104.11. The key is presenting a good proposal with the request, the method, and the reasoning behind the proposal very clearly laid out. The AHJ will need that if they ever have to defend their actions later.

Is this referring to the IBC? Unfortunately NJ has deleted Chapter 1 of the NJ Building Code; however, I will do some digging into their administrative code and see what I can find.

I usually see that the owners change the gender signs to all genders after they get the C. O. to get around this.

This isn't an option for this project, as would be just one large multi-stall bathroom instead of two, though we may have to end up splitting it into two bathrooms temporarily if there's not a way around this issue.

The codes use male and female which are specific and not fluid like the term gender. Until the code language changes what you are asking for is a common use unisex restroom by multiple male and female individuals users at the same time.

male​

adjective​

1. Of, relating to, or designating the sex that has organs to produce spermatozoa for fertilizing ova.

female​

adjective​

1. Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young.

And this is a church asking for this

The 2024 NSPC actually does use the term "all gender" in Sections 7.21.2 and 7.21.11, though it uses "sex" elsewhere. That said, I would appreciate this thread not getting derailed by politics. I realize sex / gender and toilets is a hot topic for some. This is a unitarian congregation and hence has very different views from the "typical" church.

 

[ajesaitis]

In these instances we've used AM&M's (Alternate Means and Methods) letters successfully with the AHJ.

 

[ICE]

Allowing the application of an upcoming code before it is formally adopted is not without precedent. Being, at a minimum, always one cycle behind means that the next edition beckons when it would provide relief. That takes place with the NEC more than the other disciplines.

There are situations that are easily identified as appropriate for jumping ahead however, care must be taken to avoid issues of life/safety. There is also the caveat that while the next edition might relax a code requirement, the edition that follows might reverse itself.

 

[tmurray]

We see it regularly in our province.

One thing we try to make clear is that if you want to use a more recent code, you must use all the code. You can't cherry pick between versions.

 

[bill1952]

Following this with interest, having recently toured the renovated Geffen Hall at Lincoln Center where all restrooms are non gendered compartments.

And, just a technical note, they are compartments, not stalls, for codes (and for humans).

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Following this with interest, having recently toured the renovated Geffen Hall at Lincoln Center where all restrooms are non gendered compartments.

And, just a technical note, they are compartments, not stalls, for codes (and for humans).

What's your distinction between "compartment" and "stall"? To me the two terms are interchangeable.

 

[bill1952]

First, compartment is the code term.
Second, stalls are for animals and don't have doors. Google stall definition: an individual compartment for an animal in a stable or barn, enclosed on three sides.

Searching the 24 IBC, 1098 uses of "compartment" mostly related to toilets - I didn't check them all - and just 2 to stall, one to a shower and the other to the stall load of a hoist.

 

[Joe.B]

My understanding of the upcoming changes would be that in a standard bathroom (assigned to a specific gender) the "stalls" are essentially the classic partition that doesn't go to the floor or ceiling. It sections off an individual fixture, but the room is not truly divided.

The "compartment" that is presented for a gender-neutral restroom would give each fixture its own room, no gaps at the floor or ceiling, and a tight-fitting door. This means independent light and ventilation. This becomes a separate room within a room.

 

[tmurray]

My understanding of the upcoming changes would be that in a standard bathroom (assigned to a specific gender) the "stalls" are essentially the classic partition that doesn't go to the floor or ceiling. It sections off an individual fixture, but the room is not truly divided.

The "compartment" that is presented for a gender-neutral restroom would give each fixture its own room, no gaps at the floor or ceiling, and a tight-fitting door. This means independent light and ventilation. This becomes a separate room within a room.

Exactly. Just a bunch of single user washrooms that share a bunch of sinks in the adjoining room.

I often find people's aversion to gender neutral facilities is that they envision the standard ones we have seen in the past, with just a new sign on the door.

The only thing kind of gross about it is that you (and everyone else) touch the doorknob of the compartment before washing your hands...but you get to wash your hands right after, so it's probably less of an actual health issue and just my own psychological issue.

 

[Joe.B]

People don't like change, and often find it difficult to be open minded. When this concept was first presented to an audience that I was in there was an obvious reaction most of the group had. The presenter pointed out that you have to imagine all kinds of scenarios and keep an open mind. He asked why we don't have gender specific break rooms? We are okay sharing a sink with anybody in a breakroom, but not in a restroom? What if the sinks were all outside? Like the row of porta-lou's at a concert? We're okay sharing a sink there? Then he brought up a scenario that I think changed some minds. You (as an adult male) take your daughter to an amusement park. What's better, taking your daughter into the men's room? Or going into the women's with your daughter? Or send your (presumably young) daughter into an unknown place alone. All present problems.

 

[NCRooster]

I appreciate all the responses! It looks like the correct thing to do would be to apply for a variation, so I am planning on going that route early next year - and possibly run it by the building department in advance. I will try to remember post here with the results. Thanks all!