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water heater disco location

I am not certain I agree with that. IMO, it should apply however a water heater disco can be just a 30 amp DP switch. This section is another one that can be argued and again is determined by the AHJ. I don't see where a disconnect really needs servicing as required by 110.26. How do you get the headroom in a crawl space? You may laugh but I heard about an inspector trying to enforce that rule.
 
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Dennis,

I am wondering how you would get a [ standard sized ] WH in a

crawl space........Essentially, ...IMO, if you can get a WH into a

crawl space, then serious forethought & consideration should

be given to the working clearances, for the electrical, and

piping and other.

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I don't disagree with you in concept but there are low boy water heaters that are only 2- 3 ' high. We have this argument all the time about disconnects for a/c units & furnaces in crawl spaces.

I was at a meeting in Raleigh with 7 cmp members and asked the question about clearance and they all said yes it should. When I asked how you get the head clearance for furnace and units above suspended ceilings they could not answer it. So in concept everything should be easy to get to and have clearance but I am not sure the code requires it.

Think of the cord and plug for an under counter refrigerator. That is not so readily accessible or even just accessible.
 
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I understand about the "low boy" type WH's, but Article 110.26(A)

specifically states: " ...likely to require examination, adjustment,

servicing, or maintenance [ while energized ]....The "under-the-counter"

cord & plug type refrigerator could be unplugged and removed.

Typically, most electrical WH's are hard wired and cannot be

removed or even moved for clearances......If a WH is hardwired and

has a disco to de-energize it, how many contractors or homeowners

are going to drain it and then move it for servicing, adjustment,

other?.........If there is not enough room to install it properly, how

is the owner, or other contractors going to be able to work on it?

Would you want to have it installed without the [ minimum ]

amount of clearances and be the one to have a call on it?....Just

sayin', ...the code requires it.....Why try to have a non-compliant

install for the sake of a dollar and no consideration for a fellow

tradesperson or the owner!

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I am not saying that the water heater disconnect shouldn't be accessible just that it doesn't need the 30" width clearance nor the 36" in front clearance. As long as I can disconnect the switch the clearances of 110.26 are not necessary. Certainly you would not install it where you have to move the water heater to get to it. I used the under counter refrigerator as an example of a disconnect not meeting the height requirements.
 
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Which [ electrical ] Article or plumbing code section can you please

provide, that counters / voids / removes the minimum working

clearances?

FWIW, ...I enjoy and appreciate the discussion!.......Who knows, I,

or someone else, might just learn something. :D

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Here is today's find that sparked this often debated subject.

957598d6.jpg
 
110.26(A) states likely to be serviced... highlighted below. A disconnect unless it has fuses is not, IMO, likely to be serviced, maintained, etc. This is without doubt an arguable code section and I have heard many interpretations. Most seem to believe if there are no fuses or overcurrent devices involved then the clearance does not need to be made.

110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.

(A) Working Space. Working space for equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions of 110.26(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3) or as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.
Click to expand...
 
ICE said:
Here we go again. I lost everybody's respect on this one. At some point I'll lose enough respect to stay away from electrical.http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?6775-Work-Space-Exterior-Equipment&highlight=working+space
Click to expand...
You can't disagree without losing respect? Not everyone agrees on every issue and if you read the comments there is valid reason to justify the install. Show me absolute wording that this does not meet code. It is not how I would do it but I don't see this as dangerous or a violation. Too bad you have to lose respect over that.
 
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Seems like we have another Hot Topic, ...or possibly a "compliant stairway"

discussion working here.

Dennis,

The "intent" of this particular application may be compliant, but I do

not think that it meets the "letter" of the code......Maybe Jeff can

enlighten us on the outcome.

Oooooooohhh Jeffy Pooh... what's the verdict? :cool:

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I am sure there are as many that agree with me as there are those who don't. The purpose of the disconnect is to be able to disconnect power to work on the equipment. In the picture shown that disconnect is plenty accessible for that purpose. The disconnects generally don't need servicing so I see it as compliant.
 
How does installing a water heater in a crawl space meet the following code requirements?

P2803.6.1 Requirements for discharge pipe.

The discharge piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination valve shall:

1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system.

2. Discharge through an air gap located in the same room as the water heater.

3. Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve served and shall discharge full size to the air gap.

4. Serve a single relief device and shall not connect to piping serving any other relief device or equipment.

5. Discharge to the floor, to the pan serving the water heater or storage tank, to a waste receptor or to the outdoors.

6. Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage.

7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable by the building occupants.

8. Not be trapped.

9. Be installed to flow by gravity.

10. Not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor or waste receptor.

11. Not have a threaded connection at the end of the piping.

12. Not have valves or tee fittings.

13. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section P2904.5 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.
 
All water heaters are required to have a Temp and pressure relief valve(s). This code section gives specific requirements for that. A water heater located in a crawl space can not meet the strict requirements of the T&P valve discharge requirements.

We are under the UPC with similar lanquage and the state said no more water heaters in a crawl space based on the T&P discharge requirements. Seems it would solve the issues you are having with clearances under the electrical code.
 
I would not require working space for switches as a disconnecting means.

As for water heaters in crawl space the termination point is no less observable when it is located in an attic area or an enclosure outside; IMO it's meant not to be concealed from view during examination of the water heater discharge pipe.

Francis
 
I know nothing of the plumbing code but I will tell you that it is very common in NC to find water heaters in crawl spaces. Now some of what we call crawl spaces may be 5 or 6' tall at one end of the space and then tapers down to 3' or so. I am not sure why a water heater cannot meet the directives above if install in a crawl area.
 
There is nothing in the code that states that the relief discharge can not be pumped from the crawl space.
 
Gregg Harris said:
There is nothing in the code that states that the relief discharge can not be pumped from the crawl space.
Click to expand...
what about that section quoted above that called for discharge to "flow by gravity"?
 
jim baird said:
what about that section quoted above that called for discharge to "flow by gravity"?
Click to expand...
It relates to the position of the pipe; the water is allowed to discharge to the floor.

P2803.6.1 Requirements for discharge pipe. The discharge piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination valve shall:

9. Be installed to flow by gravity.

Francis
 
I did not totally agree with the states interpretation but it sure solved a lot of issues with water heaters in a craw space.

UPC 508.5 Discharge from arelief valve into a water heater pan shll be prohibited.

UPC 608.5 .....Relief valve drains shall not terminate in a buildings crawl space.........

Pretty simple but problamatic if a water heater is installed in a crawl space since they can only gravity drain
 
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