What do you think of this door?

[LGreene]

Sometimes I have a hard time deciding whether a door is "readily distinguishable from the adjacent construction and finishes." What do you all think about this door: http://idighardware.com/2010/11/out-to-lunch/

 

[Glennman CBO]

They all look fine to me.

 

[fatboy]

I'm OK with it also......

 

[mark handler]

The glass door does not appear to have a 10" high kick at the bottom

The graphics, though a technical violation, does not hinder the visual observation that this is an exit.

 

[FM William Burns]

consensus..........so far

 

[Yikes]

The door is inset by a few inches, so even thought he racing stripe goes across the frame, it is still obvious as to the extent of the door leaf.

I like the door pulls!

 

[Gene Boecker]

(wish I could view the pictures from the office computer. . . . )

 

[LGreene]

Thanks everyone! I wish the pictures more accurately portrayed the glass in the door - it's orange. If you look at the window on the side of the vestibule, the door looks like the top of that window.

Yikes: "The door is inset by a few inches, so even thought he racing stripe goes across the frame, it is still obvious as to the extent of the door leaf."

That brings up another question...I have architects designing frames that move the door so it is flush with the push side of the frame. So far I have not had any code officials object, but I do think that makes the door less obvious.

 

[Gene Boecker]

As long as it has hardware on it, it's not going to look much like a wall.

 

[FM William Burns]

From the photos, even the one from the rear side looking towards the door make the door clearly visible. If the glass is orange and not reflection from the opposite side due to proximity and arrangement, then I would have an issue if I could not clearly recognize the door. If this was my jurisdiction the "EXIT" text would be purple or green to contrast with wall color scheme. The door itself meets the requirements (from the photos I saw) but I could make the argument for sign color though.... easily.

 

[LGreene]

Mark Handler: "The glass door does not appear to have a 10" high kick at the bottom."

You're right, but our accessibility standard doesn't require the 10" bottom rail (yet).

 

[Yikes]

So the wall is orange, and the glass in the door is orange...

But, think about how many times you've seen white doors set into a white wall, and yet everyone still manages to find their way out.

 

[mark handler]

You're right, but our accessibility standard doesn't require the 10" bottom rail (yet).

Do you not enforce ICC/ANSI A117.1-2003?

404.2.9 Door Surface. Door surfaces within 10 inches (255 mm) of the floor, measured vertically, shall be a smooth surface on the push side extending the full width of the door.Parts creating horizontal or vertical joints in such surface shall be within 1/16 inch of the same plane as the other.

Cavities created by added kick plates shall be capped.

 

[LGreene]

Mark Handler: "Do you not enforce ICC/ANSI A117.1-2003?"

No, we have a state accessibility standard - 521 CMR. My office covers the 6 New England states and several of the others use A117.1 but not Massachusetts. I have a post about the flush bottom rail requirement here: http://idighardware.com/2009/03/flush-bottom-rail/

It's now part of the ADAAG too.

 

[mark handler]

Thanks Lori

 

[RJJ]

How about the braille exit sign for the rear door? And the front door?

 

[LGreene]

RJJ: How about the braille exit sign for the rear door? And the front door?

Signage isn't considered part of the door hardware so it's not my area of expertise, but I tried looking in our state accessibility standard and didn't find much about braille signage. Maybe I'm just missing it.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopsterminal&L=4&L0=Home&L1=Consumer+Protection+%26+Business+Licensing&L2=License+Type+by+Business+Area&L3=Architectural+Access+Board&sid=Eeops&b=terminalcontent&f=dps_aab_regs_pdf_1&csid=Eeops

 

[RJJ]

Don't know if this applies in your area. I was referring to 2009 IBC section 1007.9 last part.

 

[Gene Boecker]

Lorren,

The section from the Mass Access Code that addresses this (albeit quite poorly) is:

41.1.3 Elements and spaces of accessible facilities which shall be identified by the International Symbol of Accessibility and which shall comply with 521 CMR 41.7, Symbols of Accessibility are:

a. Parking spaces designated as reserved for individuals with disabilities;

b. Accessible passenger loading zones;

c. Accessible entrances when not all are accessible shall have directional signage to indicate the route to the nearest accessible entrance;

d. Accessible toilet and bathing facilities when not all are; and

e. Emergency egress signs, which are required to be illuminated.

If you use item "e" you get a literal requirement to put the wheelchair symbol on every exit sign. How many of THOSE have you seen?

The current ADAAG does a poor job of addressing this as well. I think what Richard is talking about is in the current Mass Code (7th edition):

1011.3 Tactile Exit Signs. A tactile sign stating

EXIT and complying with 521 CMR shall be

provided adjacent to each door to an egress stairway,

an exit passageway and the exit discharge.

 

[LGreene]

Wow! Thanks Gene!! Like I said, I don't get into signage much, I appreciate the information. I saw the section of 521 CMR that you pasted above, but it didn't mention braille.

RJJ: I was referring to 2009 IBC section 1007.9 last part.

Here's that section with the commentary. It seems like this would apply to areas of refuge and exterior areas for assisted rescue only, no?

1007.9 Signage. Signage indicating special accessibility provisions shall be provided as shown:

1. Each door providing access to an area of refuge from an adjacent floor area shall be identified by a sign stating: AREA OF REFUGE.

2. Each door providing access to an exterior area for assisted rescue shall be identified by a sign stating: EXTERIOR AREA FOR ASSISTED RESCUE.

Signage shall comply with the ICC A117.1 requirements for visual characters and include the International Symbol of Accessibility. Where exit sign illumination is required by Section 1011.2, the signs shall be illuminated. Additionally, tactile signage complying with ICC A117.1 shall be located at each door to an area of refuge and exterior area for assisted rescue in accordance with Section 1011.3.

 

[LGreene]

I went back to the restaurant and took a picture of the door so you could see the treatment on the glass. I think it's similar to the advertisements on buses, and I bet we'll be seeing more of this on doors.

 

[peach]

Probably ok if the sun is shining... first photo doesn't show the window graphics installed. I haven't paid too much attention to 2009 IBC yet... the required signage for area of refuge is going to be a problem.

 

[mark handler]

I went back to the restaurant and took a picture of the door so you could see the treatment on the glass. I think it's similar to the advertisements on buses, and I bet we'll be seeing more of this on doors.

No go. The graphic Conceals the fact that it is a door/exit. With the power out, at night, with no backlighting.

Direct violation of the code.

Thanks for the updated photo

 

[peach]

other than the fact that there looks like an EXIT sign above the door... glad I mentioned the fact the "the sun is shining"... not there and not enough info to say yes or no.