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What happens if a city approves a deck that seems to violate fire codes

Discussion in 'Residential Fire Codes' started by Jane, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I would say if a civil attorney thinks he can get rid of the deck,,,

    I would say civil court might be your best shot,
     
    Jane likes this.
  2. Jane

    Jane Registered User

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    I hope you're wrong :(
     
  3. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    A deck that size lends itself to gatherings. You'll be able to join in.....pass a tray back and forth with hors d’oeuvres.

    All things being relative your efforts must involve a significant investment. The city is the opponent but Mr. Flake owns the offense. Sue him and prove that the deck is illegal. Suggest that he has participated in a fraud without openly stating such. His money is as good as the city's.
     
    #443 ICE, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  4. Jane

    Jane Registered User

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    LOL! I needed that chuckle :)
     
  5. Jane

    Jane Registered User

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    I just read the second part of your statement and since I have invested a lot of money in this I am interested. How do I suggest that he participated in fraud? I did text him and tell him that his deck violated zoning and he basically said "tough".

    I've also been looking at setback violations - there don't seem to be the same time restraints on those as on appealing a building permit. His deck has clear setback violations so would you suggest moving that way forward too?
     
  6. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Some times a "flanking" offense is better than a "direct" assault.
     
  7. Jane

    Jane Registered User

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    Does that mean coming at him from different angles? So far I've registered a couple of zoning violations against his property, I'm waiting to see if he files for an amended permit/certificate of completion... and we have to file suit before Dec 21st. What are your thoughts?
     
  8. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Setback, permit, zoning, no contractor's license, denial of your property rights, threat to your property by fire spreading from his deck?
    Your attorney should be able to come up with an end around to catch them off balance. Sue him directly vs the city. Make him spend as much as you have to defend himself. Doesn't your HOA have an E&O policy for their directors mistakes? What approvals do your CC&Rs require for onsite alterations?
     
  9. Jane

    Jane Registered User

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    Great ideas. I'm thinking Flake probably has lawsuit insurance so if I sue him he will just use his insurance to bankrupt me! It does seem that suing him directly is the best bang for the buck.

    Our HOA does have insurance but they went rogue on Flake's deck. It turns out it's almost impossible to sue the HOA and they will say they relied on the city permit even though they denied other people building a deck.
     
  10. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    This is a government official who probably does not his name associated with anything illegal, given that he has desires for greater political offices.

    Long game with media attention is probably your best bet.
     
  11. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    What have been the latest comments from media?
     
  12. Jane

    Jane Registered User

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    Since Jeff didn't show up the other night the latest comments are regarding the law suit. They are wanting to know what the plan is and I don't know just yet.
     
  13. Jane

    Jane Registered User

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    That is true - I just don't want to get too attached to Flake's deck :)
     
  14. Jane

    Jane Registered User

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    Happy New Year All!! The deck saga continues and I am trying to take the advice of those of you on the forum who have advised me to flank Jeff Flake on both sides. Currently, my appeal has been filed with the district court and if the judge comes issues a timeliness verdict then I believe I can move forward with the appeal. In addition, my neighbor's permit is officially invalid as in accordance with Section 105.5 of the 2015 IRC, which the State of Utah has adopted, all permits are considered expired after 180 days from issuance or from the last known inspection.
    Since the deck has never had an inspection (and wasn't built in accordance with the permit) the permit is now expired. My question is, can the city (legally) extend an expired permit where the permit was not legal in the first place?
     
  15. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    The permit is not illegal just because you claim that it is illegal. It will take a court of law to deem the permit illegal. Now that may not be the case everywhere but you are up against a recalcitrant building department.

    I can tell you that from my experience a permit can be old and moldy but not expired as long as the system shows it as not expired. Okay I get that time has run out but if nobody went into the computer and expired the permit and nobody has written "EXPIRED" with a date and signature on the permit.....well then an inspector can keep it alive with an inspection. I have done exactly that.

    There's reasons for doing that. Maybe we dropped the ball. Perhaps a contractor bailed. Jobs will get every inspection except the last inspection. The owner is oblivious. Should we then make the owner pay a load for a final inspection. I've had jobs that stalled because of a catastrophic health issue.

    I tell you these things to illustrate that we can do pretty much whatever we want when it comes to expiring permits.
     
    #455 ICE, Jan 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
    VillageInspector likes this.
  16. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    It’s a new decade. So fight on.

    No help from city elected officials ?
     
  17. VillageInspector

    VillageInspector Sawhorse

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    I agree with all of the above and I'm certain an attorney can make the argument that the applicant/client did not bother to renew the permit pending the outcome of the legal actions. Bottom line, as stated above, don't put much stock in the status of the permit.
     
  18. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Welcome back Jane, "Fight On"! it is a "new" year.
     

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