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What ICC Leaders Should Do....

This isn't the place for a board member or rep to comment or discourse on ICC issues. Responding to anything in any detail on a public forum is simply bad practice. There are channels of communication with these people , , , , write a letter. Or even an email. Maybe even make a phone call. Say something specific.
 
At least Dwayne (yea....... the fire guy) mentions a couple of the issues facing ICC and points out necessary measures (membership) needed to improve their standing (Pg.3). I happen to know him and the fire representation he is trying to replace. He would give all of us "members" a good service since he shares the "team" concept of code development and application approach and knows the need to all work together in this business protection of the civilian population.
 
Yankee said:
This isn't the place for a board member or rep to comment or discourse on ICC issues. Responding to anything in any detail on a public forum is simply bad practice. There are channels of communication with these people , , , , write a letter. Or even an email. Maybe even make a phone call. Say something specific.
I have given specific ideas for the lack of transparency within the BOD and holding the individual BOD members accountable

for their actions. I have also used all the communications mechanisms you noted above. Those experiences resulted in the ideas I have listed. I'd like to hear others ideas about improving the relationship between the BOD and the membership as a whole (not individual members).
 
Marshal Burns said:
and knows the need to all work together in this business protection of the civilian population.
I thought all of us were civilians:

\ said:
n.A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military, the police, or a belligerent group.

  1. A person who does not belong to a particular group or engage in a particular activity.
  2. A specialist in Roman or civil law.
adj.

Of or relating to civilians or civil life; nonmilitary: civilian clothes; a civilian career.¹
Since all of us are pursuing a civil life and none of us are members of the active military or the police, some of us must be members of a belligerent group?

¹ http://www.answers.com/topic/civilian
 
Conarb,

" some of us must be members of a belligerent group? "

Unfotunately my friend; I think you have it in a nut shell (pun intended). We do meet the qualifications of and definition of a belligerent group. :cool:

Uncle Bob
 
Frankly, none of them go into ICC leadership roles with much of an agenda other than the recognition... getting the ticket punched, etc. (Or so I believe)..

you may as well ask them to solve the theory of relativity as to ask them what their plan is.

Only after they find themselves in the frying pan do they begin to form what they'd like to accomplish. I've read some of the candidates agendas.. always fluff.
 
I know Doug Murdock.. since I don't know any of the others, and Doug is a good Code guy, that would be one for me.
 
The last time I went to the Annual conference it seemed that the best way to get elected to the ICC board was to give away the best t-shirts and have your state organization sponsor the best hospitality suite.
 
peach said:
Frankly, none of them go into ICC leadership roles with much of an agenda other than the recognition... getting the ticket punched, etc. (Or so I believe)..you may as well ask them to solve the theory of relativity as to ask them what their plan is.

Only after they find themselves in the frying pan do they begin to form what they'd like to accomplish. I've read some of the candidates agendas.. always fluff.
Exactly, ICC leaders and BOD members don't reveal what the job entails - so how does anybody know if they are competent for the job?
 
peach said:
I know Doug Murdock.. since I don't know any of the others, and Doug is a good Code guy, that would be one for me.
You have no knowledge of whether the job requires the candidate to be a good code guy so how can you say with any certainy that he should be elected to perform the job. I suspect it requires a whole different skill set - but we'll never know until the BOD members and ICC leaders tell us what is involved. To that end we should be electing people that stipulate their agreement with our expectations on turning things around. All existing BOD members need to be removed at the earliest possible opportunity (i.e. throw the bums out).
 
CowboyRR said:
You have no knowledge of whether the job requires the candidate to be a good code guy so how can you say with any certainy that he should be elected to perform the job. I suspect it requires a whole different skill set - but we'll never know until the BOD members and ICC leaders tell us what is involved. To that end we should be electing people that stipulate their agreement with our expectations on turning things around. All existing BOD members need to be removed at the earliest possible opportunity (i.e. throw the bums out).
I am getting a mixed message from your post . . . which is it, that the ICC leaders should "tell us what is involved", or that we should have "stipulated expectations"? I agree that there is some fixin' to do, but having been on boards I'd say get yourself on one or two so that you have some perspective as to what these people face.
 
Yankee said:
I am getting a mixed message from your post . . . which is it, that the ICC leaders should "tell us what is involved", or that we should have "stipulated expectations"? I agree that there is some fixin' to do, but having been on boards I'd say get yourself on one or two so that you have some perspective as to what these people face.
I have advocated that the BOD should be much more transparent in their activities and I have specified how I would prefer they inform the membership about their personal involvement. There are several great "code guys" that are currently on the ICC BOD that obviously lack adequate leadership skills to serve on the BOD. I have served on boards - and that point is not relevant to the purpose of this thread. I was hoping this thread could be a resource Kyle could use to provide ICC Leaders with tangible ideas that they could use to start turning things around. Hopefully, future posts will provide some more of these ideas.
 
Having served on a number of "boards" I think the duties of the board members should be explained to the membership: the Board is a policy-making body, not the day-to-day operational entity overseer. The CEO is the person responsible for the day-to-day operations and business. If the Board does not like the direction the CEO is taking, it's up to the Board to say whether or not he stays, whether or not he changes direction according to their policies. The Board is directly accountable to the membership. I have, on several occasions, written to every member of the Board of ICC. Mr. Zubia was the ONLY one who replied, and he was president at the time. What the Board members do on their own time is often not relevant to their position on the Board. In the case of the ICC Board, I would think that some broad spectrum of backgrounds would lend itself to a better board: Should all Board members be business men? Inspectors? building officials? Fire Chiefs? I don't think so. It's the real-world mix of backgrounds that would lend intself to setting policies that are sound.

OK. I'm off the soapbox for now. Except to say that if you want ICC to change, you need to address Operations and Policy.
 
rant......"when the ICC stops being a publishing company lobbying the government to require everyone to purchase their product every three years." done....no need to read further, just an architect's anecdote from the transition.

story....." PA has the UCC that went through phases of changes and ever expanding codes but they wised up and streamlined their life safety code down to a very useable 5"x8" 80+/- page code book that cost anyone 8 dollars from the government. this code was around since the twenties with mods plus the ADA was all we needed across the state except Philly and Pittsburgh(chose their own codes since they needed more specific stuff) up until the state decided it didn't want the responsibility. so, back in the 90's they adopted the international code. the reviewers at the time were having trouble learning and many were just under the retirement age.(some were my friends who were stalling) it wasn't until 2004 i think, the state actually said enough is enough we're going ahead and implementing the newest code(03). townships were to opt in or out of reviewing their own projects to this code. with this, the third party review system began, along with it, the confusion. and here we are today, still trying to learn the new code. with every new version of the code, we make the previous code obsolete and a legal nightmare for these review agencies not to mention us designers who need to own the codes. PA law states that the code must me accessible to everyone, but as of today, the 2009 code in unavailable in any public library. the 06 codes are spread out all over the county and with all the cross referencing, it's truly a nightmare to feel comfortable that one IS actually following the code. this has placed even more stress on the review agencies.

the ability of the BO to use his judgement that is totally legal in the code went out the window when the state started springing pop reviews of the reviewers. the fear of liability and doing anything that isn't exactly stated in the code rarely happen and understandably. all the reviewers i know are scared to lose their job if the use their judgement on a case by case basis. their fear of job security put pressure on the DPs to over draw where things were not necessary prior. this led to outrageous fees and many times the work load to both justify a fee and CYA information. the AIA lobby is partly to blame too(idiots). anyhow, the trend in building reviews with the new code seems to have gone from "life safety" , where it should be, to the "Protection from Offending Civil Liberties" and "i can't authorize that because i could lose my job" and at times, "it's about protecting the future owner/occupant so we require it now since it doesn't matter what you want, it's what the code says."

a few weeks back i was asked to attend a town meeting with a state senator three local councilmen and give a presentation with the local BO about the impact of the code upon small river towns. every building has at least an 8 inch step inside with 2 -3 stories wood stud tin ceilings with amazing amounts of charm. some with no rear entrances capable of the strictness of accessibility.......no water in the street capable of supporting sprinklers and if there was it was in the middle of the street through prized brick sidewalks($$$$).... or no fire separation between floors and some buildings sharing structural party walls. the local businesspeople put on this event to express their frustration to the government officials pointing out how the new code actually prevents them from upgrading their buildings since they are so far out of whack with the current code and that the Existing Buildings Code isn't much help. many businesses that would like to be in the town center go out to the burbs since they can't afford to do what is required of them. the building owners complaint is that the building's been there since 1850, where's it going?...they can't sell, they can't get renters, they can't afford to front the change of occupancy, their possible renters don't want to be required to pay for the change of occupancy or to have to try and start a new business on limited funds plus buy a building-upgrade their bathrooms-close off two upper rentable floor since they can't afford sprinklers ...and on and on what's happening? the worst thing that can happen to a building......they go vacant! and all they hear from the government is that, "well, that's just the cost of doing business." well that was a t first, now the local government is seeing the light. but what i found interesting is that the state senator told me this was the first "complain about the imposition of the code" session hesever been to, but he constantly is attending seesions for those who want more restrictive codes. that was an eye opener for me.

does any of this sound familiar? the people get mad at me for what i have to tell them, they get mad at the BOs because of what they tell them but mostly they know we're only doing the job that the code tells us to do. so i like to tell them that the code is an entity that was designed with good intentions but was unleashed upon us by ignorant politicians who didn't understand the self-promoting aspect of the the code and it's life's blood is the sale of their product. it's here to stay and the only way to fix it is to get rid of it, i won't hold my breath.........story over, sorry it's just i'm sick-tired-and have nothing better to do.
 
ICC has a mission and a vision; the BOD isn't going to waiver from that very much. How they achieve success is for the membership to decide. Ewenme hit the nail on the head. No one person on the Board is going to make radical changes; each of them has a vision of what they want to achieve. In the real world, budgets, etc are going to dictate what is actually accomplished.

I could throw my name into the ring on the platform that "EVERY jurisdiction will adopt the 2009 I codes without amendments within 12 months"... sounds like a plan, but the jurisdictions won't buy into it.
 
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