What is a Room

[Fritz]

I am guessing this has been discussed before.

I have two break rooms in an office building. Each has 49 occupants.

The want to put a movable wall between them for "occasional"

conferences.

They do not want to classify it as an "A" occupancy.

I call it an A, so they come back with a "half high wall"

My book still says an A.

So, what defines a room or the wall between 2 rooms.

Fritz

 

[mark handler]

An "A".....A-3 Assembly uses intended for worship, recreation or amusement and other assembly uses not classified elsewhere

in Group A including, but not limited to:....

 

[codeworks]

fritz, if the space is now of prooper size for 49 occupants, and a "movable wall" or "folding partition" is installed to make two small rooms one big room, exiting must be provided from one big room, for all those little people.it'd be an A

 

[codeworks]

one more thing. "they " don't classify it, the code/code official does based on the codes adopted where you are working

 

[Fritz]

I do understand the classification.

To clarify, together it is 1,450 SF

separated, each is less than 750 SF

I was thinking more along the line of an A-2. As it is intended to be

breakrooms for the more than 150 employees.

Exiting is not the question.

Here is the catch.

Business occupancy

3 story building

V-B construction

Fully sprinklered.

AND of course they want to put the breakroom/conference room on the 3rd floor.

An "A" is not allowed on a 3rd floor of a V-B construction. The sprinkler allows the 3rd floor B occupancy.

So, what kind of wall would be acceptable to break down this room into rooms of less than 750 SF.

Glass, half height, a fixed table, my favorite a row of beer kegs.

F

 

[codeworks]

like andy rooney used to say "now we get the rest of the story" hahahaha. i'm out

 

[cda]

1004.1.1 Ac tual num ber. The actual number of occupants

for whom each occupied space, floor or building is designed.

1004.1.2

looks like if there were even a half high wall down the middle, so people on one side could not easily cross to the other, you would have two areas.

 

[cda]

room

noun

1.

a portion of space within a building or other structure, separated by walls or partitions from other parts: a dining room.

space - an area reserved for some particular purpose; "the laboratory's floor space"

 

[Fritz]

Should have given more details to start with.

So, in a conference place, we have it broken down into separate rooms or spaces by 30" high walls or partitions.

To go from one to another we have to go through openings in the wall.

We can visit, shake hands and all take part in the conference speaker in a differnet room or space.

So, do we have a series of "B" occupancies or an "A"

I say its an "A", which I believe you will or may agree. Then the question remains. Tell me what kind of

wall the code requires.

F

 

[tmurray]

We can't tell you what you as the authority having jurisdiction should find acceptable. We can only provide opinions and tell you what we would find acceptable.

That being said. We typically look at floor area instead of room, so if you have a room with a couple different activities taking place it can be broken into the applicable occupancies and occupant loads. If an architect provided a set of plans to our office stating that in a room half of it may be used for a conference room and the other half would be used for a lunch room we would take it at face value. We do plan reviews based on provided facts, not what ifs.

 

[cda]

Should have given more details to start with.So, in a conference place, we have it broken down into separate rooms or spaces by 30" high walls or partitions.

To go from one to another we have to go through openings in the wall.

We can visit, shake hands and all take part in the conference speaker in a differnet room or space.

So, do we have a series of "B" occupancies or an "A"

I say its an "A", which I believe you will or may agree. Then the question remains. Tell me what kind of

wall the code requires.

F

this set up, would say you have an A, because the two areas can intermingle, one room.

 

[globe trekker]

Fritz,

I also believe that you have an "A" Occ. Group for the one large, communicating room.

If they desire to call it a "B", then a more permanent, non-moveable wall will have to

be installed.

.

 

[kilitact]

We can't tell you what you as the authority having jurisdiction should find acceptable. We can only provide opinions and tell you what we would find acceptable. That being said. We typically look at floor area instead of room, so if you have a room with a couple different activities taking place it can be broken into the applicable occupancies and occupant loads. If an architect provided a set of plans to our office stating that in a room half of it may be used for a conference room and the other half would be used for a lunch room we would take it at face value. We do plan reviews based on provided facts, not what ifs.

B occupancies, if the wall is permanant. The rooms may need two exits each

 

[Fritz]

No question, I am in agreement with all.

The room or space admittedly will be used as a large conference area.

Half walls, glass walls, movable walls are all ways of trying to confuse the intended use of the space.

Occasional conferences.

Now, the trick is to write up the report using code section numbers.

One of these, show me where in the code book.

Hey, its what we do.

Thanks for the input and sounding board

Fritz

 

[brudgers]

So long as the company schedules the occasional conferences around any occasional fires, what's the big deal?

 

[Fritz]

Still at it.

Now it is after the fact. The plans were changed to

show 3 separate rooms. Now they are asking for a modification to

those folding walls, and a 42" high wall.

So, what were 3 distinct rooms of 48, 31 & 43 occupants is now an open space /room of 122 occupants.

or 1975 SF, on the 3rd floor of a V-B fully sprinklered building.

We put a stop on it until the answer is resolved.

As I see the potential of so many other concerns at this point.

Again, he asks, show me in the code, section and verse where it says I cannot do this.

Working on that now.

 

[cda]

he can do it as long it meets all requirements of a A-3.

SECTION 302

CLASSIFICATION

302.1 General. Structures or portions of structures shall be

classified with respect to occupancy in one or more of the

groups listed below. A room or space that is intended to be

occupied at different times for different purposes shall comply

with all of the requirements that are applicable to each of the

purposes for which the room or space will be occupied. Structures

with multiple occupancies or uses shall comply with Section

508. Where a structure is proposed for a purpose that is not

specifically provided for in this code, such structure shall be

classified in the group that the occupancy most nearly resembles,

according to the fire safety and relative hazard involved.

I kind of think the ball is back in thier court, you have told them no, now let them come up with code sections to prove they can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mark handler]

Still at it.Now it is after the fact. The plans were changed to

show 3 separate rooms. Now they are asking for a modification to

those folding walls, and a 42" high wall.

So, what were 3 distinct rooms of 48, 31 & 43 occupants is now an open space /room of 122 occupants.

or 1975 SF, on the 3rd floor of a V-B fully sprinklered building.

We put a stop on it until the answer is resolved.

As I see the potential of so many other concerns at this point.

Again, he asks, show me in the code, section and verse where it says I cannot do this.

Working on that now.

It is still a single "space", with dividers....changing the spots does not change what it is... it is still an "A" occupancy

 

[Fritz]

Love the spots, I like of like strips better.

as in you can lead a horse to the water, blah, blah,

So what is a zebra without strips?

Without working with persons like this, we wouldn't

be able to recognize the people who are trying to do the right thing.

Thanks

F

 

[Fritz]

here is the missing "E"