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When can you not use pier footers for building a small house in Upstate NY

Discussion in 'New York State' started by louie, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. louie

    louie Registered User

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    I see Footers all over the place pier footers are cheaper and when done right last the life of the house.
    I paid for plans and the Code Enforcement person has told me that do not meet the code and when I asked him to explain or quote the code or write a refusal letter with the code he choose to deny me to build with piers I got the run around.... I need to know WHY I cant set a small home on piers. Please Help! need a loaded gun answer. To combat the enemy.
     
  2. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

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    I'm just typing out loud here, but I don't think calling a building inspector "the enemy" on a board full of building inspectors is probably the smartest thing I've ever seen......

    Without a set of plans, we're not going to be much help to you. Can you post the plans here, or a link to where we can see them?
     
    JBI and fatboy like this.
  3. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Only pier I know about,,, is a fishing pier.


    Inspector needs to cite section

    Go to his boss even if one horse town

    Do they do poured foundations mainly ??!
    In that town
     
  4. louie

    louie Registered User

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    J Craver--- your right but this guy is not there to help me. he even said once I can make it hard for you to build your HOUSE!
    And I shouldn't have said evil.

    cda--- your absolutely right my friend said the same thing And I am felling I should post what this inspector said so all could see after cursing me out on the phone. All I asked him for was an email to examine as to how I did not meet the code. Oh he responded!
     
  5. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Sounds like you need to record him, if you talk to him again.
    If same act, I think I would bump it to the highest official in the city, and if they do nothing, go to the media.

    Back to your problem, is he the only inspector in the town or does he have an inspector or building official over him???
     
  6. louie

    louie Registered User

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    cda--- Yes thinking that also I just don't want to sue, I want to live there retire there.


    I want to go about my approach before the Code Enforcer (CE) in another way. Doing things step by step from now on. He has after my request as to site why he has not passed my drawings. He sent by text “I have the right and authority to do a denial of a set of prints when they don’t have enough information. I don’t have on those so-called plans. IRC 401.2 402.4”

    He sited and quoted the problem. I sent the drafter/designer back what the code enforcer said and he said “Not a valid interpretation of that section of code as to his drawings” The drafter/designer is saying that I need to pay him the balance of what is due which is about a thousand $. Because of IRC 401.2 402.4” my plans with the concrete tube forms have been rejected. Like I told the CE they were my preliminary unstamped documents, I just wanted to see what needed done as a Greenhorn in the mater building my first house.
     
  7. Francis Vineyard

    Francis Vineyard Sawhorse

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    Immediately request to file an appeal that the revised plans is designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice. Then you will have the opportunity to explain before a board of volunteered professionals for a determination. Depending on your state laws, the boards decision may also be subject to an appeal if decided in your favor.
    The reviewer should be confident of his interpretation or hopes you will be discouraged to follow through, as this route may take several months.
     
    #7 Francis Vineyard, Oct 20, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  8. louie

    louie Registered User

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    hello all,
    Francis---- sounds good if he doesn't listen to reason as a last resort and he texted me the answer I think something with a letter head with cited language should be the manner of communication, at least I will attempt for Monday.
     
  9. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Does he have a boss ??

    Or is he the only inspector/ building offical in town ?
     
  10. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    What year irc is adopted by your city/ state??
     
  11. louie

    louie Registered User

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    Hi all,
    Cda--- He is using the IRC 2015 His superior is part of the same crew the town superintendent. And I am in NY up state.
     
  12. louie

    louie Registered User

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    Can you build two floors on pier footers in Upstate NY

    Please anybody out-there know..
     
  13. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Anything is possible and still be code compliant as long as it is engineered properly. There is always more to the story and although I understand your frustration, no one here is going to tell you exactly what you want to hear.

    The most important conversation to resolve this is between the code official and your design professional. Instead of trying to be the middleman, you need to step back and let your design professional do their job and speak directly with the code official. I have helped people like you in the past get issues like this resolved and I have been the code official who rejected plans for good reason with the code to back me up. I understand both sides and we are only getting one side here.
     
    JBI likes this.
  14. louie

    louie Registered User

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    jar546--- Your right if this was in reference to a unpractical person in the thread I mentioned that at one point of dealing with him in the past he said "I can make it very hard to build your house" I totally get what your saying, but I am now studying the ICC the people that copyright the IRC. https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2015/chapter-4-foundations?site_type=public and believe me I am not a complainer that just want to get weaponized to combat the Evil inspector Oh sorry! ---JCraver cause you just think am an idiot for saying that but at the moment I was frustrated with the hate that I have been going through from a town I will be moving into. I would need a whole lot more room to explain the nature of the hatred, but I can say on our behalf we don't participate. So ---jar546. What would the thread need to produce to educate me as to what can be done and how to comply as well as a straight up solution instead of mostly opinions to questions about my alleged gripe about the horrors this man and his cronies have put me and my family through. Thanks for any help I could receive or will receive, I do need the help it would be appreciated by myself and my family.

    I want to go about my approach before the Code Enforcer (CE) in another way. Doing things step by step from now on. He has after my request as to site why he has not passed my drawings. He sent by text “I have the right and authority to do a denial of a set of prints when they don’t have enough information. I don’t have on those so-called plans. IRC 401.2 402.4”

    He sited and quoted the problem. I sent the drafter/designer back what the code enforcer said and he said “Not a valid interpretation of that section of code as to his drawings” The drafter/designer is saying that I need to pay him the balance of what is due which is about a thousand $. Because of IRC 401.2 402.4” my plans with the concrete tube forms have been rejected. Like I told the CE they were my preliminary unstamped documents, I just wanted to see what needed done as a Greenhorn in the mater building my first house.
     
  15. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Let's start with this:
    https://www.dos.ny.gov/dcea/ (Official NYS Code Webpage)

    Then make sure your code official is indeed acting legally in that capacity:
    https://www.dos.ny.gov/DCEA/certceolist.html (list of certified code officials/inspectors)

    Then, start the process of gathering information for an appeal
    https://www.dos.ny.gov/dcea/reg_off_cty.html (contact info for appeal process)

    Here is the appeal form in PDF:
    https://www.dos.ny.gov/dcea/pdf/2078-a-f.pdf

    No one here is going to give you legal advice on a situation when we are completely in the dark and not the AHJ. You can have your design professional appeal this with a lot more luck than you trying.

    If you want to post a PDF copy of your blueprints for a better response then please let me know and I will help you do that.
     
    JBI likes this.
  16. louie

    louie Registered User

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    Thanks, Are the towns interpretation of the building code (THIER CODE) of the law registered online somewhere or is it at most usually at the towns they pertain too.
     
  17. louie

    louie Registered User

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    Dose anybody know if you can not build a second floor on pier footers ///sono tube etc.

    I want to send the .pdf but have not been successful trying.
     
  18. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    My try

    The building code is in black and white, just like other laws.

    Unless a dept has common problem, most do not have written interpretations of the building code. But they are supposed to apply it the same way to every person.
    Why my question is your design seen in other new homes????




    Someone submits a set of plans.

    They are reviewed per the building code.

    The plan reviewer either approves them or denies them with cause.

    Once a denial is done, than the talking begins.

    In your case it sounds like either not enough infromstion or not the correct infromstion.
    This happens all the time.

    My advice pay your designer.

    Set a meeting with the inspector, designer, and you.

    Possibly that meeting may resolve the plans and they get approved,
    Or your designer has to provide more details or information.



    No matter what till you get the plans happy, you wil not build.


    Not saying this about your project, I see lousy plans a lot, so they do not get approved.

    I also make a mistake on how I read the black and white, and I get corrected, and the plans get approved.
     
    jar546 likes this.
  19. jwilly3879

    jwilly3879 Sawhorse

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    It would appear that he is rejecting your plans due to insufficient information about the soil bearing capacity and the ability of your pier design to support the loads of the house.I have run into plans created by a draftsman designer that do not provide the correct information for the size of the footing supporting the pier. An Engineer should be able to provide the required calculations. As a Code enforcement Officer in upstate NY I don't believe I am anyone's enemy. How would you feel if your building had been constructed and the suffered a failure? Who would you then blame, the designer or the code official the allowed the construction?
     
    my250r11, JBI and jar546 like this.
  20. Bill Ernst

    Bill Ernst Registered User

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    Sounds like money is the issue; the designer wants his grand, the building department is looking for a soils engineering report/geotechnical possibly as well, and every item translates to $$$ for the little guy just wanting to swing a hammer. I can relate. “Engineer” was a cuss word in my house for many years, as every required stamped letter or question the building department had on my small development projects translated to $3500 and at least another month delay. “Government overreach”, I’d scream. I’d walk into the building department looking for a fight because I knew my chicken scratch site plan on 8.5 x 14 graph paper was going to get picked apart...
    I suspect at the core of all this - it’s $
    You can hire a structural engineer to design and stamp piers for two and probably three stories! Engineers! It’s all about the design review person being provided a professional’s report approving via stamp what you’re proposing.
     

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