When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

[Robert Ellenberg]

R301.1.3 states "The extent of such design need only demonstrate compliance of nonconventinal elements with other applicable provisions and shall be compatible with the performance of the conventional framed system." Obviously an engineers stamp meets this requirement but is it optional? If the documents submitted "demonstrated compliance of nonconventional elements with other applicable provisions", is that sufficient? Is it up to the local officials as to whether or not a stamp is required?

 

[Mac]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

"Obviously an engineers stamp meets this requirement but is it optional?" If you are unable to confirm that the design does indeed demonstrate compliance, then I advise you to require the seal of an engineer.

Unless your state or other regs require the plans to be sealed and/or stamped, I guess its your choice.

Having stamped plans or a detail sheet in the files means that you have provided your jurisdiction with some protection if something bad happens.

 

[JBI]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Robert - It will to some extent be found in the enabling legislation for you locale. In NYS for example, State Education Law requires any plans prepared for a project with a cost in excess of $20,000 shall bear the seal and signature of a Licensed/Registered Design Professional. Oregon apprently has no such dollar value limit, but uses square footage for 'exempt' buildings and structures. in between is a mixed bag of State (and local) regulations. The Code does require a seal for some specified items/elements - EIFS for example - and for any non-prescriptive elements in the design, but for the most part the requirements are found outside of the Code itself.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

"The extent of such design need only demonstrate compliance of nonconventinal elements - Engineered;

with other applicable provisions - code requirements;

and shall be compatible with the performance of the conventional framed system - won't make the building fall down or damage other structural elements."

When does the code require an Engineer's stamp?

When it does not conform to or is not covered by the requirements of the prescriptive codes.

Uncle Bob

 

[Code Neophyte]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Or anytime the code says "shall be designed" - read-> "Sealed Engineered Design" (examples: R401, R502.11.1)

 

[Robert Ellenberg]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

On numerous occassions I have had something that was not prescriptive and have always obtained an engineers stamp BEFORE taking it to the code official. But in reading through the code it occured to me that it is not a REQUIREMENT of the IRC--the IRC requires good engineering practices and local officials are the ones who require the stamp to prove that it is. Per the code if I am reading it correctly, you cold have a non licensed engineer (apprentice out of college) do all the calcs and if they were sufficient for the local official--it would meet the code.

I am not suggesting it be done that way but on a close look at the code I simply couldn't find any requirement for the stamp unless locals requried it.

 

[FredK]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

......When does the code require an Engineer's stamp?When it does not conform to or is not covered by the requirements of the prescriptive codes......Uncle Bob

I'm with UB. If you can show me it meets the prescriptive requirement ok if not then get an engineer.

 

[brudgers]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

What I find interesting about this thread is that the concern is that the drawings are stamped rather than that the design is adequate.

I guess it's because I've never seen a wet seal hold up a building.

 

[Glennman CBO]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Which is worse...a design that is adaequte with no stamp, or, a design that is not adequate with a stamp?

 

[Heaven]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

What I find interesting about this thread is that the concern is that the drawings are stamped rather than that the design is adequate.I guess it's because I've never seen a wet seal hold up a building.

There you go again.

A Building Official is not required to do engineering calculations to verify if the structure is adequate. The stamp of an engineer is the verification based on appropriate design criteria. You seem to have no faith in your brethren and lots of faith in the building official : ), thanks!

 

[cboboggs]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

I'm with UB and Fred. Prescriptive no stamp. Here are Missouri's exemptions for design professionals:

(a) A dwelling house; or

(b) A multiple family dwelling house, flat or apartment containing

not more than two families; or

© A commercial or industrial building or structure which provides

for the employment, assembly, housing, sleeping or eating of

not more than nine persons; or

(d) Any one structure containing less than twenty thousand cubic

feet, except as provided in (b) and © above, and which is not

a part or a portion of a project which contains more than one

structure; or

(e) A building or structure used exclusively for farm purposes;

 

[brudgers]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

A Building Official is not required to do engineering calculations to verify if the structure is adequate. The stamp of an engineer is the verification based on appropriate design criteria.

"It's not my job" is an excellent approach to public safety.

 

[brudgers]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Which is worse...a design that is adaequte with no stamp, or, a design that is not adequate with a stamp?

It depends on if your criterion is public safety or a bureaucratic checklist.

 

[Glennman CBO]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Brudgers...exactly.

 

[brudgers]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Brudgers...exactly.

"There you go again."

 

[Heaven]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

A Building Official is not required to do engineering calculations to verify if the structure is adequate. The stamp of an engineer is the verification based on appropriate design criteria.

"It's not my job" is an excellent approach to public safety.

Nice try but that isn't what I wrote.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

A Building Official is not required to do engineering calculations to verify if the structure is adequate. The stamp of an engineer is the verification based on appropriate design criteria.

"It's not my job" is an excellent approach to public safety.

Nice try but that isn't what I wrote.

Get used to it...

 

[kilitact]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Heaven wrote;

A Building Official is not required to do engineering calculations to verify if the structure is adequate. The stamp of an engineer is the verification based on appropriate design criteria. You seem to have no faith in your brethren and lots of faith in the building official : ), thanks!

I disagree, the stamp of a registered design professional is verification that this person is registered, licensed, bonded and insured with the states regulatory agency. The stamp is not verification of the adequacy of the design, that’s the code officials job. I think that NY allows a stamp review to verify code complaince.

 

[Heaven]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Heaven wrote;

A Building Official is not required to do engineering calculations to verify if the structure is adequate. The stamp of an engineer is the verification based on appropriate design criteria. You seem to have no faith in your brethren and lots of faith in the building official : ), thanks!

I disagree, the stamp of a registered design professional is verification that this person is registered, licensed, bonded and insured with the states regulatory agency. The stamp is not verification of the adequacy of the design, that’s the code officials job. I think that NY allows a stamp review to verify code complaince.

What is a stamp review?

 

[peach]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Requesting (and particularly keeping) structural calculations, I believe, puts a building department at more risk than just accepting the structural designers' seal. Anything that is in the file is public record, and if the calculations are wrong (let's assume the building department doesn't have a structural engineer on staff to review them), negligence can be attached... for not properly reviewing the calcs. :shock:

 

[Heaven]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

Requesting (and particularly keeping) structural calculations, I believe, puts a building department at more risk than just accepting the structural designers' seal. Anything that is in the file is public record, and if the calculations are wrong (let's assume the building department doesn't have a structural engineer on staff to review them), negligence can be attached... for not properly reviewing the calcs. :shock:

I agree

 

[brudgers]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

I've always believed that minimizing risk to the building department was the best way to protect the public, and that not keeping records helped insure safe buildings. That way, it's harder to learn from any mistakes and doesn't that mean that you have made fewer?

 

[Robert Ellenberg]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

"What I find interesting about this thread is that the concern "

No, that was not the concern. The question (which still hasn't been answered) is there anywhere in the code where the IRC code require a stamp on a design as opposed to an adequate design. Adequate designs can be done to engineering standards by an engineer who works for a corp. without needing a license and is moonlighting as an example.

 

[Paul Sweet]

Re: When does the Code require an engineers stamp?

The stamp makes it easier to sue the A/E if something goes wrong.