Where does egress end in residential

[jar546]

If it ends outside the house then do exterior steps from an attached, covered front porch have to be compliant and covered under the building code? IRC specific discussion.

 

[steveray]

IMO.....Yes....If it is an item specifically coverd in the code it is subject to code requirements if it directly serves the dwelling....To clarify (maybe)...I don't get into "landscape" stairs...But at least as far as you would get away from the house in a fire situation....

 

[mjesse]

...steps from an attached, covered front porch...

Attached is the key word for me, so yes.By extension, how about the NOT attached concrete steps that lead from the front walk to the driveway?I say rise and run, definitely. But how many are enforcing handrails/guards?View attachment 916

mjView attachment 916

/monthly_2013_10/traditional-landscape.jpg.05a494953aa9a172b2b84ca131a09746.jpg

 

[RJJ]

Well I don't agree! is an egress widow well with a ladder to dirt covered? No! Does the code require it ? No!

 

[mjesse]

is an egress widow well with a ladder to dirt covered? No! Does the code require it ? No!

Deleted--

I mis-interpreted your post.

Me thinks Jeff means "covered" as in "included in" the Code, not "covered" as in "a cover/roof over"

mj

 

[fatboy]

I vote for yes, as long as it is attached to the house, and it is regulated by the code, then it is part of the MEO, and must be compliant. JMHO

 

[jar546]

Deleted--I mis-interpreted your post.

Me thinks Jeff means "covered" as in "included in" the Code, not "covered" as in "a cover/roof over"

mj

I used the word covered but should not have. My point is a from porch that has a cover or a rear open deck, does not matter as long as they are all outside of the house.

 

[High Desert]

First, you have to have (1) egress door to the exterior only.

R311.1 Means of egress. All dwellings shall be provided with

a means of egress as provided in this section. The means of

egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical

and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling

to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door

without requiring travel through a garage.

Second, if you have a landing that is not at grade, then you have to provide a ramp or stairs to grade.

When exterior landings or floors serving the required

egress door are not at grade, they shall be provided with

access to grade by means of a ramp in accordance with Section

R311.8 or a stairway in accordance with Section

R311.7.

If you have your egress door and the landing is at grade, you’ve met the means of egress and you’re done.

If you have a landing outside of the egress door and you provide either a ramp or stairs to grade, once you reach grade, you’ve met the means of egress and you’re done.

Yes, if you have stairs off your egress door landing, by code they have to comply. But they only need to go to grade, Other lanscape stairs beyond that are not incluuded in the scope of means of egress. Now if the code said access to a public way, then yes, I would agree that lanscape or other stairs would be regulated

 

[steveray]

But to play devil's advocate......311.1 says nothing about grade.....

 

[High Desert]

You're right, it doesn't say anything about grade. It does however say "shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling

to the exterior of the dwelling...." So that being said, you only have to pass through the exterior door to the outside to meet egress. Where grade comes into play is the second code section where it states if the landing is not at grade, then you have to have a ramp or stairs to get to grade.

So in a way, that second section implies that if the landing at outside the egress door is "at grade" then you've met egress.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

It ends at the required exterior egress component that is anchored to the primary structure and not through the garage.

 

[Glenn]

"R101.3 Intent: The purpose of this code is to establish minimum requirement to safeguard the public safety, health and general welfare through affordability, structural strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, light and ventilation, energy conservation and safety to life and property from fire and other hazards attributed to the built environment and to provide safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during emergency operations."

This should be the core of a code administrator's interpretation of each section, not the specific words...the tricky, tricky words. I've seen how those words get created. It takes rational thought, to apply the intent of those words appropriately in each situation.

The words say that this is just a slab on grade driveway and a retaining wall, and all you need is an engineered design. The purpose of the code tells us to install the guard. This is one of my prized photos when these type of discussions come up.

 

[fatboy]

I've called that exact scenario before............guard required.

Now if this were a landscape feature, not attached to a code regulated structure......not weighing in on it.

 

[RJJ]

We have responses to guards etc. The question is I suppose, do the steps have to be covered / have a roof. I say no.

 

[MikeC]

I have always had a hard time with this one. I know what I was trained, but I don't like it. This is important in PA due to the was the Uniform Construction Code is written.

Here is my take:

Means of egress clearly states a path to the egress door. Like it or not, the egress door ends the means of egress. A ramp or stairs may be required, but that doesn't make it part of the means of egress.

 

[Glenn]

We have responses to guards etc. The question is I suppose, do the steps have to be covered / have a roof. I say no.

The guards are a good example for this discussion, as any attempt to use the code to exclude stair geometry would also exclude these guards. At least the arguments I've heard so far. This is why I bring it up.

NO, it was already clarified in this thread that the question was about whether the stairs are under the "regulation" of the IRC, not "covered" as in with a roof. No stairs are ever required to be covered with a roof.

 

[High Desert]

The original question is where does the means of egress end? I still say immediately outside the egress door if the landing is at grade, or the bottom of the ramp or stairs at grade if the landing is not at grade. So yes, if the landing outside of the door is not at grade, and stairs are provided, the egress ends at the bottom of the stairs.

How are stairs off the landing not part of the means of egress? The code clearly says if the landing outside the door is not at grade, then ramps or stairs shall be provided to grade and sends you to R311.7, which are all the requirement for stairs.

 

[Mac]

Please note that "Stairways" are included in 311 "Means of Egress". Which leads me to believe that exterior stairs are intended to be part of the MOE.

 

[jar546]

So basically we all have different view points. Was this addressed by the ICC officially?

 

[High Desert]

I really don't see any confusion where it ends. I think the code is pretty clear.

 

[jar546]

I really don't see any confusion where it ends. I think the code is pretty clear.

There are many that say the stairs from a deck or porch are not covered by the code because technically you have already egressed the house and are outside.

 

[steveray]

I don't have this piece in my code yet.....not that I wouldn't try to enforce it.....

"When exterior landings or floors serving the required

egress door are not at grade, they shall be provided with

access to grade by means of a ramp in accordance with Section

R311.8 or a stairway in accordance with Section

R311.7."

 

[steveray]

We all know decks aren't really covered (code not roof) at all.....

There are many that say the stairs from a deck or porch are not covered by the code because technically you have already egressed the house and are outside.

 

[Mac]

A dwelling needs only one 311 "Means of Egress" compliant exit door- other exterior doors don't need the stairs.