Why RDPs are required to go through municipal plan review

[ADAguy]

Consider jar that we are in an age of loss of institutional memory and with it loss of the availability of "peer" reviewers in both the public and private sectors or your example shouldn't have happened. NCARB has "dumbed down" the exam to 6 sections from 9, and allows non-architectural majors with masters in Arch to qualify as a professional degree eligible to take the exam? These issues together with past recessions and retirements has deleted the pool so to speak. A few of us on the Forum represent those remaining, we can't be cloned unfortunately. The number of new firms and licenses issued since the 70's has further increased the demand for the services of the few of us remaining.
Unfortunately these comments will only continue. Law of deminishing returns?

 

[tmurray]

Negligence is a strong word to use, but what else do you call it? Anyone here ever turn anything over to a State Licensing Board?

I have, but not based on the engineer's design. He had complaints of this nature in the past and always seems to be able to explain them away. He also had a history of, using my boss' terminology, belittle, bullshit, and baffle. So, I rejected his work and waited for the inevitable. The next day he called and told me I was completely incompetent, that I clearly had no training whatsoever, and he was going to speak to the mayor and have me fired (for what it's worth, I both created and teach some of the courses required for certification to become a building official in my province). I calmly responded, Mr. <engineer>, if you are going to speak to me like that, I think this conversation is over. He then calmed down a little and I educated him as to why I was interpreting the code the way I was, which he agreed with at the end. But, I did send a complaint in to our local engineering society that regulates engineers here. They upheld my complaint and ultimately decided to let the engineer off with a warning, but I was told it was a very lengthy conversation with some on the complaints committee wishing to execute disciplinary action. This was more or less the outcome I expected. He is much more respectful now, I have shared what happened with others in my area to make sure he is treating them with the necessary professional courtesy.

Working as a designer, I have also had officials reject completely code compliant designs or construction because they wanted it built another way. One that was "better". They stepped well over the line of regulator into designer and were completely oblivious to it.

I LOVE working with good architects and engineers. Those are the best projects. Good contractors really help too. We often get comments that the RDPs wish they could move all their projects to our town because we are "so reasonable". When I respond the job is to be reasonable, they jokingly ask me if I could tell some other officials.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I have problems when architects and engineers stamp a drawing that architects and engineers from a different state designed and never checked to see if it complies with the local codes, local wind load, etc.

 

[ADAguy]

I have problems when architects and engineers stamp a drawing that architects and engineers from a different state designed and never checked to see if it complies with the local codes, local wind load, etc.

Unfortunately "it" happens.

 

[mark handler]

I have problems when architects and engineers stamp a drawing that architects and engineers from a different state designed and never checked to see if it complies with the local codes, local wind load, etc.

More and more common.
Especially with Large nationwide mercantile and dining establishment companies.
They have a proto-typical store they want everywhere.
And Features like vestibules, are a waste of space, in mild climates.

 

[ADAguy]

Unfortunately those proto's are seen by others and imitated without knowing if they comply with local codes or the ADA, ie: Starbucks lost a class action with regards to their counter heights, 3,00 stores impacted (smiling).

 

[conarb]

Unfortunately those proto's are seen by others and imitated without knowing if they comply with local codes or the ADA, ie: Starbucks lost a class action with regards to their counter heights, 3,00 stores impacted (smiling).

You take great delight in harming other people don't you ADAguy?

 

[tmurray]

We had that issue with a national pet supply chain. Their counter was long enough to require a section for accessible service. Listening to their designers, they had constructed almost a hundred of these stores with the exact same counter issue all over Canada, but we were the first to catch it.

That goes to another issue in the industry, reviewers or inspectors who don't even look at something because a RDP has stamped off on it. They appear to have a sense of security that the RDP will be held solely liable, which in Canada, is very unrealistic.

 

[e hilton]

You take great delight in harming other people don't you ADAguy?

Not really. I work for a company with nation wide presence, and they have a standard design, but they are smart enough to hire a locally registered architect to make sure it passes local code. And they are reasonable enough to make changes when required. Required being the key word. I think we have all probably heard of national chains that think their one-design should be accepted every where just because of who they are.

 

[conarb]

Not really. I work for a company with nation wide presence, and they have a standard design, but they are smart enough to hire a locally registered architect to make sure it passes local code. And they are reasonable enough to make changes when required. Required being the key word. I think we have all probably heard of national chains that think their one-design should be accepted every where just because of who they are.

Back, when at least some of us were fighting the government imposed International Code, we were told the reason for it was so designers could design on a national and eventually worldwide basis, doesn't seem to have worked out.

 

[tmurray]

Back, when at least some of us were fighting the government imposed International Code, we were told the reason for it was so designers could design on a national and eventually worldwide basis, doesn't seem to have worked out.

The issue comes about because it is not a code that is enacted at a national level. We have similar problems here in Canada. There are benefits in that the codes are similar, so the proto-buildings are about 95% in any given jurisdiction. Local RDPs are the ones who have the experience with the local amendments that will get it across the finish line though.

 

[ADAguy]

Harm Starbucks? they are not mom & pop's but it is the Mom & Pops who imitated their noncompliant designs who are ultimately hurt.

 

[conarb]

Harm Starbucks? they are not mom & pop's but it is the Mom & Pops who imitated their noncompliant designs who are ultimately hurt.

I have no love for Starbucks, never been in one and doubt that I'd ever want to go into a coffee shop, but no-one, not even a large corporation deserves to be harmed by a bunch of Marxist's trying to redistribute wealth. Again, everyone, individual or corporation deserves to be treated equally, that means no-one gets special privileges.

 

[tmurray]

I have no love for Starbucks, never been in one and doubt that I'd ever want to go into a coffee shop, but no-one, not even a large corporation deserves to be harmed by a bunch of Marxist's trying to redistribute wealth. Again, everyone, individual or corporation deserves to be treated equally, that means no-one gets special privileges.

All businesses must comply. No one is being treated differently.

Everyone can use the accessible features. No one is being treated differently.

If my store is not accessible, then I AM treating people differently.

 

[ADAguy]

Thank you "t"

 

[conarb]

All businesses must comply. No one is being treated differently.

Everyone can use the accessible features. No one is being treated differently.

If my store is not accessible, then I AM treating people differently.

You are forcing others to accommodate the handicapped, that costs money, your job is to enforce minimum health and safety standards, not the Marxist social justice agenda, if a guy wants to build his counters 4' high for tall people that's his business, Frank Lloyd Wright famously build short, narrow doors because he was small, that was between him and his customers, it's none of the building department's business.

There "was" a famous Gardiner Daily 1962 building at UC Berkeley called Tollman Hall, it's now a pile of rubble concrete, UC spent $160 million to build a new building and another $16 million to demolish Tollman Hall, a total waste of taxpayer monies, of course they always cite seismic but all buildings have seismic problems now, here is the real reason:

Building Details

Floors: 8

Accessible entrances: There are seven (7) entrances/exits in total, three of which are fire exits. On the ground (G) floor, there are three (3) entrances/exits, one of which is wheelchair usable with a compliant door and an automatic opener. The first (1) floor has two main entryways at grade, no automatic openers. The second (2) floor has one main entrance at grade with no automatic openers.

Restrooms: Two side-transfer stalls (one mens and one women's) are provided on the ground (G) floor. An additional side-transfer stall is located in the women's restroom on the second (2) floor. Location: Ground Floor: towards north end of floor Second Floor: two on the west wing, towards the north, one more on the east wing towards the south.

Designated waiting area: Ground floor on the west wing has a designated waiting area adjacent to the north stairwell. First floor should be exited via the breezeway entrance. Floors two through four, have waiting areas located on the west wing at each of the two stairwells. Floor five has a waiting area in each wing located adjacent to the stairwells.

Emergency evacuation cabinet: E & W: East Side: The emergency evacuation cabinet is located directly across from the elevators on the ground floor. West Side: The emergency evacuation cabinet is located directly in front of the east entrance of the west side.

Accessibility features: There are two usable drinking fountains in the building, one on the ground floor (in the southeast cornier), and one on the third floor (near west end elevators). Location: Ground Floor: one near southeast corner, another east from center of floor plan Third Floor: one near south stairs in west wing, another east of elevators in west wing, one more near the center of the east wing.¹

BTW, here is a picture of the tunnel through Tollman that isn't anymore because of the frigging Social Justice Warriors.

We ought top go through every building department and ferret out the Social Justice Warriors and fire each and every one of the bastards, here is a good article on prejudiced inspectors in New York City:

This case is especially egregious, and still Hu has faced an uphill battle since 2011 to try to get some semblance of justice.

Burkart’s colleague even hit Hu with a car in 2011, while Burkart was in the passenger seat. This was shortly after Hu’s first lawsuit against Burkart began.

And yet Burkart is still on the job. Imagine how many smaller injustices go on every day, throughout every town in America because the government claims monopoly power over building inspection or any number of code and ordinance violations.

We can marvel at how people like Stalin and Mao came to power, but the truth is there are tiny tyrants everywhere, just itching to grab their slice of the power pie.

And that’s why you need free association, the ability to walk away when you are dealing with bad people. Unfortunately, the way the government operates, you cannot simply disengage, you can’t opt out of their “services.”

But even the tiniest bit of power attracts the worst type of people.

You don’t have to play by the rules of the corrupt politicians, manipulative media, and brainwashed peers.²

¹ https://dac.berkeley.edu/tolman-hall

² https://www.thedailybell.com/all-ar...enforcement-is-too-much-power-for-government/

 

[jar546]

Conarb, your vile peevishness never ceases to amaze me and I'm sure some others. It must be hell to live with that kind of petulance in your cerebrum all the time.

 

[e hilton]

Tiny tyrants ... so true.

While i agree with you about eliminating SJW ... who is to say they are wrong? There are lots of people in the world who think being a SJW is the highest calling.

 

[tmurray]

You are forcing others to accommodate the handicapped, that costs money, your job is to enforce minimum health and safety standards, not the Marxist social justice agenda, if a guy wants to build his counters 4' high for tall people that's his business, Frank Lloyd Wright famously build short, narrow doors because he was small, that was between him and his customers, it's none of the building department's business.

Just to be clear, it is not my job to enforce minimum health and safety standards. My job is to enforce codes, by-law, and acts that I am empowered to enforce by democratically elected officials.

True. No public employee should be able to enforce anything that is not a requirement under the law.

This is not what is happening.

ADA is a law that is being enforced.

The people democratically elected an official who created this law.

The people can democratically elect someone to abolish this law.

The people have not done this. Therefore, the people want ADA compliant buildings.

Who am I, you, or anyone else for that matter, to tell the majority of a country that what they want is wrong?

I think I've told this storey before, but here it is again. My father just retired from running a store. On the subject of accessibility, he does not think that it should be a law, but because "a lot of business owners don't see it as important and those morons should go out of business".

From the outside, you appear to be frustrated with a world that has changed around you and now has a different value structure.

 

[tmurray]

Tiny tyrants ... so true.

While i agree with you about eliminating SJW ... who is to say they are wrong? There are lots of people in the world who think being a SJW is the highest calling.

I completely agree with this statement. I find SJWs do more to alienate their cause from the rest of society than spread awareness or progress their cause.

 

[conarb]

Nobody has addressed the article I posted above,]Even Building Code Enforcement is too much Power for the Government

 

[mtlogcabin]

I believe most SJW are just tiny tyrant wannabees trying to influence others to their way of thinking or believe. The proper name for them is proselytizers

 

[conarb]

That didn't come through right, try this: https://www.thedailybell.com/all-ar...enforcement-is-too-much-power-for-government/

 

[tmurray]

That didn't come through right, try this: https://www.thedailybell.com/all-ar...enforcement-is-too-much-power-for-government/

Because it's sensationalist dribble.

AS I have repeatedly said, one situation is not indicative of a systematic problem.

Do bad building inspectors exist? Yes. I know some pretty terrible ones myself. I also know bad contractors. Maybe we should make it illegal to be a contractor too.