Would you require safety glazing?

[Uncle Bob]

Ewenme,

My daughter graduated from a private University last december; and during her first years, lived in the dorm on the second floor. I bought her a portable escape ladder for the window; she used it for a decoration.

Most city departments are afraid (political reasons) to "over supervise" University's (including private), building and remodeling.

As Peach pointed out; you don't have the authority to regulate furniture arrangements or window treatments; and if you did; the students would comply until you finished your inspections and then move the furniture anywhere they pleased, and remove the window treatment; because you say it can't be.

If you make a formal suggestion, or worse yet, requirement; as to where and/or what "should" be done; as opposed to a specific quotable code requirement; you are taking personal responsiblity for any and all problems, accidents, or deaths; associated with your suggestion and/or requirement.

I beleive we should stay with code requirements that are within our authority and responsibilty; regardless of our personal conserns for safety.

If the Fire Marshal and/or the Fire Chief wants to address this; that is their prerogative.

Please, don't let them put this on you.

Uncle Bob

 

[fatboy]

I stand on my first post.........you certainly can go on record for recommending to rethink the arrangment, but further than that, well.....peach and UB pretty much nail it down......

 

[peach]

could require built in furniture.. or require them to make the single person rooms so small there isn't any possible way to relocate furniture.

 

[RJJ]

Although I agree with nothing in the code to command this requirement, let us not forget the code is a minimum. I also agree that the code official can't just make up codes regardless of what they think should or should not be. UB is also right on the aspect of taking on personal responsibility for such change or requirement.

However, given the limited info several things could be done if the OP feels a safety issue exists. First, if the building official / fire Marshall agree that a problem does exist then I suggest and ordinance,resolution etc be drafted and approved by the Board or council. Nothing in the code exists that prohibits an AHJ to require something more restrictive. By doing it in a public forum it allows issues to be vetted and aired. Sounds to me to be something outside the chapter and verse of the code, but warrants consideration. Only the local ahj knows the extent of the possible problem. If it is a true concern this would be the proper legal channel to find a real correction. The code is always behind the issues that arise. The code righter can't address every possible situation. Sometimes we must apply common sense to problems. The public assumes that all things are totally safe all the time. We know that this is not the case. Our training and experience tells us when to raise the flag and view an issue with more detail and some caution.

 

[peach]

RJ is right.. the code official can't start making up code (well, you can if you do it by local ordinance).

 

[RJJ]

my point is that there is a way to make a code revision correct. From the original OP it seems that a valid concern exists. If that is the case then the local ahj should address it in a formal setting. Dorms and schools / living off campus can produce some crazy situations. What we think we can imagine has yet to be tested. 20 years ago who would believe people would be driving and texting at the same time. JHO

 

[Yikes]

A few years ago the City of Los Angeles issued a code interpretation that any operable window on upper floors had to meet requirements for guardrail, so little kids wouldn't climb out. After that, everyone designed their sill heights to 42" minimum. Guess what? Now the wall space under the sill is tall enough that people place their sofas and beds underneath, and the kids use the furniture like a ladder to climb up to the window opening.

There is no code solution that covers every situation.

Dorm rooms (or their Greek house equivalent) are always an issue. Many freshman are adjusting to a smaller rooms, PLUS a roomate, and the pressure is on to maximize every cubic inch of space. Almost everyone goes vertical with some type of bunk bed arrangement. I once saw a room where the upper bunk was moved away from the window, but the resulting placement put the upper bunk's pillow only 6" away from the wall-mounted fire alarm strobelight. Let's hope that guy doesn't sleep facing the strobe wall - - he'll be blinded after just one alarm!

UPDATE: Here's an example of how the University of Tennessee (Knoxville) checks for bunk bed safety vs. the building life-safety features:

http://uthousing.utk.edu/BunkBedInfo.pdf

Maybe you could encourage your local fraternities to adopt (copy/paste) a similar document.

 

[Yankee]

At some point you gotta let go and let someone else take responsibility. I learned that when I needed to condemn/post as unsafe some cabins that had people w/kids living in them. Where were they to go? I had to do the part that was covered by my job and trust that others would do the parts covered by their jobs.

 

[Bootleg]

speaking for fraternity across the street, please don't put film on the windowsHow big are these windows?

What the %$#$ are you doing on your bunk that you "fall" out?

"Sleeping Porch" not bedroom, if windows are not required for egress and double hung, suggest

a guard across the upper.

agree with gene & fatboy ya can't fix stupid

Why not window film?

Interested in knowing.

 

[peach]

another little kid fell out of a townhouse window in either VA or MD (I can't keep up with them all).... on last night's news they stressed the point that screens will not keep a person or pet from pushing thru.

OK, when I open the windows (since I have dogs) that they can reach, it's always the upper sash.

Why? because I figured out that even a 20 pound dog, properly motivated or interested can push himself out of a screen.

 

[mark handler]

In the incident where the student fell out through the window, the person was cut horribly, and also had broken bones. This is one reason why I think some sort of guard would be the best solution. Several years ago a young fraternity brother was mooning onlookers through an open window and he fell out. At least he wasn't cut badly, but he was very seriously injured. That incident prompted may stickers to pop up in windows, with varying degrees of humor and seriousness. I've heard that the human brain is not completely formed until about 22-25 years. Sometimes I can believe it.

You cannot regulate stupidity

 

[Yikes]

Unfortunately, we've had another fatality yesterday involving a bunk bed next to a window:

MARINA DEL REY, LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- A 4-year-old boy has died after falling out of a third-floor apartment window in Marina del Rey on Sunday night.

The incident happened at the Mira Bella Apartments on Marina Pointe Drive. The boy, identified as 4-year-old Niko Laurie, landed on a walkway below the apartment.

He was rushed to UCLA Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead at 2:44 a.m. Monday.

LAPD Sgt. Kevin Lowe says the boy fell from a bunk bed next to a window while playing a game with friends. The boy landed on concrete.

According to police, the boy's mother and a friend sat talking in the other room a very short distance away, and it took a split second for him to fall out of his bedroom window.

Investigators say no criminal charges will be filed, but authorities want the painful loss to be a reminder to parents to always be aware of placing furniture next to open windows and other environmental hazards - and to always watch your children.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8256386