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Need to tie down replacement beam on pier and beam

Daniel Boquist

Registered User
Joined
Sep 10, 2018
Messages
39
Location
Vance, SC
I am replacing beams on an old house (renovation). I am going to assume that the building inspector is going to insist that I tie the beams to the foundation. No such tieing was done originally. Any suggestions on efficient way to meet this requirement?
Thanks
open
 
Normally, there would be a sill plate on top of that block wall and the rim joist would sit on that, which your beam would butt into. What you have there - I have no idea how you're going to fix that if you plan on leaving that beam long / sticking out. Have you thought about hiring a contractor?

And what are you doing with that asbestos siding you ripped off? Double-bagging and then notifying the landfill, I presume?
 
Normally, there would be a sill plate on top of that block wall and the rim joist would sit on that, which your beam would butt into. What you have there - I have no idea how you're going to fix that if you plan on leaving that beam long / sticking out. Have you thought about hiring a contractor?

And what are you doing with that asbestos siding you ripped off? Double-bagging and then notifying the landfill, I presume?

No, there is no block wall. There are piers and curtain wall. The way that it was built was with an 8x8 beam resting on the piers.
The beam that is sticking out is a temporary beam under a load bearing wall.
Normally (modern) you would have a continuous footing and foundation wall, and the sill plate would bolt on to the foundation wall. This is an entirely different situation.
I worked on framing crews for about 10 years, so I’m pretty familiar with all of that.
Thanks anyway.
 
What kind of shape are the piers in, and do you have room for a flat 2x on top of them? Could cut a treated 2x12 to fit, tapcon it to the top of the piers, then attach the beam to that if the bricks will hold.
 
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Daniel Boquist,

Possibly pour a compliant concrete footing underneath
the house at each of the "[ horizontal ] beams-to-footing
connections, and as **JBI** mentioned, ...use a galvanized

strap to wrap over the top of the beams and then secure
the other ends of the strap in to the concrete footing, or
a Hurricane H10S strap.

Simpson Strongtie makes a lot of different straps for
all kinds of applications.


serveimage

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What kind of shape are the piers in, and do you have room for a flat 2x on top of them? Could cut a treated 2x12 to fit, tapcon it to the top of the piers, then attach the beam to that if the bricks will hold.

That sounds like a possibility. The piers are old so that would be scary. A definite possibility. Thanks
 
Suggest that you consult with an engineer.

In the "ol" days pre-conarb, they some times would use 8x, 10x or 12x solid white oak, dense material in that location,
termites would have to find something soft to enter. Not sure if a treated yellow pine could be used, may be too soft and the engineer would have to crunch the numbers and supports may need to be evaluated?

A built up stack of solid 2x may be designed.
 
From the photo it appears that this is a precode construction, no?
What you refer to as piers appear to be stacked bricks with concrete infill between, no?
How is the soil and water table in the area?
Age of building?
 
From the photo it appears that this is a precode construction, no?
What you refer to as piers appear to be stacked bricks with concrete infill between, no?
How is the soil and water table in the area?
Age of building?

Correct.. precede construction
Correct on the piers..
Water table is high.
Don’t know the age of the house.

I’m not sure that they will make me anchor the beams.. but if I had to bet, they will.
 
Suggest that you consult with an engineer.

In the "ol" days pre-conarb, they some times would use 8x, 10x or 12x solid white oak, dense material in that location,
termites would have to find something soft to enter. Not sure if a treated yellow pine could be used, may be too soft and the engineer would have to crunch the numbers and supports may need to be evaluated?

A built up stack of solid 2x may be designed.

I think that I should be able to use 2x8 made up beams. They would conform to code. The problem, I think, is anchoring the beams to the foundation.
 
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In the discussion so far, it sounds as though the existing
brick piers & concrete blocks are shot and not an option
for anchorage to them.....If this is the case, can you jack
the house up and install new pier footings, or a continuous
footing around the perimeter underneath the house,
...something with anchorage installed in the concrete that
will tie to the beams ?

We have offered a lot of prescriptive options so far, but it
may be time to call in a structural engineer, ...especially
with a high water table as a factor.

Also, ...I recommend that you contact the local Building Official
to discuss options.........We can offer guesses & "What ifs" all
day long on here.

Please keep us informed of this topic.

Also, if you have benefitted from your visit on this Forum,
would you also consider becoming a regular contributor &
a Paid Subscription Member [ i.e. - a Sawhorse ] ?

Thanks ! :)


# = # = #
 
Don't you love it when the requester fails to provide "all" the info necessary to render an opinion but the photo sure says a lot?
Dan, are you doing this as the contractor, owner?
The depth of the water table can be a serious issue, are you near a flowing water source or spring? Area in a flood plain?
 
Don't you love it when the requester fails to provide "all" the info necessary to render an opinion but the photo sure says a lot?
Dan, are you doing this as the contractor, owner?
The depth of the water table can be a serious issue, are you near a flowing water source or spring? Area in a flood plain?

A picture is worth a thousand words, they say.
I’m doing this as an owner.
As I said in an earlier post, I worked on framing crews for many years. I can replace the beams. No big deal.

My question, to put it more clearly, is..
1) In a renovation such as this, will a tie down from the beam to the footing (piers) be required? In other words, would I be required to bring it up to current code?
2) Assuming that 1) is yes, is that possible with the current configuration (piers and beams)?

I realize that you guys may be inspectors, and maybe not structural engineers and that 2) is more of an engineering issue.

Thanks
 
You have already said that the block-work is suspect. Being there should provide an answer.

Of course the floor framing must be secured to a foundation.

The devil is in the details, esp. when people are inclined to make authorities sounding statements (too common on forums) without sufficient cause.

My comment about the piers was in a conversation about drilling down into them. That would be scary because they are so old.

If I were to attach the beams to the piers, I believe the code is an attachment every 6 ft?.. that would work since the piers are <=6 ft. oc.

I found a piece of newspaper in the attic.. Jan 23, 1948. The piers are old with no visible problems.

This house was well built. The entire outer walls are sheathed in 1x6 planks on diagonal, also, the ceilings are 1x6’s nailed on to the joists.
 
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Daniel,

Since none of us on here can accurately assess the condition of the brick
columns, I recommend that you discuss this project with the local
Building Official, if there is one available........He \ she should be able
to provide you guidance on what needs to be done........He \ she [ may ]
require a structural engineer to evaluate the existing brick columns to
determine if they are acceptable to anchor to........If there is no Building
Official available, then you [ may ] want to either go ahead and hire a
licensed structural engineer on your own; for an evaluation, or hire a
registered, licensed & fully competent building designer to design an
approved foundation [ i.e. - to be approved by the local jurisdiction ]
before you proceed with anchoring anything to the brick columns.

Yes, the beams need to be securely attached to the foundation.......We
are simply trying to assist you in options for the anchoring, based upon
the brick columns being in an acceptable \ approved condition.

Again, ...if you have not already, please contact the local BO to discuss.
Their [ official ] guidance is what will matter, not ours !


On this Forum, we cannot really provide you with an accurate assessment.
We can offer options, but your local BO will be the one to determine your

course of action.

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