Is a Mezzanine considered a "floor"?

[mtlogcabin]

When there is a Group A-3 on a floor (not a story) that is above the level of exit discharge, then a sprinkler system is required.

Under this application any A-3 with a raised floor area would require a sprinkler system. A small church or community halls where there is a raised floor area 7 or 8 steps up for the speakers or entertainers to lecture or perform from, most will call that a stage or raised platform and never call for a sprinkler system to be installed.

 

[Meadowbend99]

As to Access" how will the mezzanine be accessible?
Also if the bldg is sprinklered the underside of the mez would also then require sprinks, no?

There will be stairs leading up. It will be redundant apparatuses.

 

[classicT]

As to Access" how will the mezzanine be accessible?
Also if the bldg is sprinklered the underside of the mez would also then require sprinks, no?

Mezzanine is not required to be accessible, as it is less than 3,000sf.

1104.4 Multistory Buildings and Facilities
At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible story and mezzanine in multilevel buildings and facilities.
Exceptions:

1. An accessible route is not required to stories and mezzanines that have an aggregate area of not more than 3,000 square feet (278.7 m2) and are located above and below accessible levels. This exception shall not apply to:
   1. Multiple tenant facilities of Group M occupancies containing five or more tenant spaces used for the sales or rental of goods and where at least one such tenant space is located on a floor level above or below the accessible levels;
   2. Stories or mezzanines containing offices of health care providers (Group B or I);
   3. Passenger transportation facilities and airports (Group A-3 or B); or
   4. Government buildings.
2. Stories or mezzanines that do not contain accessible elements or other spaces as determined by Section 1107 or 1108 are not required to be served by an accessible route from an accessible level.
3. In air traffic control towers, an accessible route is not required to serve the cab and the floor immediately below the cab.
4. Where a two-story building or facility has one story or mezzanine with an occupant load of five or fewer persons that does not contain public use space, that story or mezzanine shall not be required to be connected by an accessible route to the story above or below.

 

[SCBO1]

View attachment 7056

The mezzanine will become an observation area with occupant load, the FM will most likely revisit this space later with occupant load issues. These facilities will have competition and the mezzanine will be used for viewing, increasing the OL. I've seen this before tables and chairs with 30-40 spectators during competition.

The FM has a concern, code may not.

 

[mtlogcabin]

You cannot base your code requirements on what may happen in the future within any building you must base your code requirements on what is presented to you at the time of permitting.

 

[ADAguy]

How do you do redundant rings on the mezzanine or viewing from it without providing a lift?

 

[classicT]

How do you do redundant rings on the mezzanine or viewing from it without providing a lift?

Because it does not need to be on an accessible route.

Mezzanine is not required to be accessible, as it is less than 3,000sf.

1104.4 Multistory Buildings and Facilities
At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible story and mezzanine in multilevel buildings and facilities.
Exceptions:

1. An accessible route is not required to stories and mezzanines that have an aggregate area of not more than 3,000 square feet (278.7 m2) and are located above and below accessible levels. This exception shall not apply to:
   1. Multiple tenant facilities of Group M occupancies containing five or more tenant spaces used for the sales or rental of goods and where at least one such tenant space is located on a floor level above or below the accessible levels;
   2. Stories or mezzanines containing offices of health care providers (Group B or I);
   3. Passenger transportation facilities and airports (Group A-3 or B); or
   4. Government buildings.
2. Stories or mezzanines that do not contain accessible elements or other spaces as determined by Section 1107 or 1108 are not required to be served by an accessible route from an accessible level.
3. In air traffic control towers, an accessible route is not required to serve the cab and the floor immediately below the cab.
4. Where a two-story building or facility has one story or mezzanine with an occupant load of five or fewer persons that does not contain public use space, that story or mezzanine shall not be required to be connected by an accessible route to the story above or below.

 

[steveray]

But a stage or raised floor is not it's own fire area and generally does not have a "floor" below it.....

Under this application any A-3 with a raised floor area would require a sprinkler system. A small church or community halls where there is a raised floor area 7 or 8 steps up for the speakers or entertainers to lecture or perform from, most will call that a stage or raised platform and never call for a sprinkler system to be installed.

 

[ADAguy]

Not so, see item 2, what elements do you contend are not accessible?

 

[Blazer]

Seems like a building with an abundance of foam and vinyl mats. I see why Fire Marshal wants it sprinklered. Place will burn to the ground before the fire department arrives I'm guessing what their thought process is.

903.2.1.3 (3) The fire area is located on a floor other than a level of exit discharge serving such occupancies.

definition: Mezzanine. An intermediate level or levels between the floor and ceiling of any story and in accordance with Section 505.

 

[Bryant]

Interesting topic ! So to understand, I hope, is, one thing here dealing with mezzanines, when speaking in terms of a level vs, floor and story of or mezzanine in. the difference between the two is whether or not it is inside the space between the ceiling and floor level. In other words as defined mezzanine means the intermediate level or levels between the floor and ceiling in accordance with section 505. Whereas a level is considered a story? So a mezzanine can be in the story of the building in question? obviously this one in the OP is a one story structure. But what if you built an addition lets say to the structure attaching it to the outside of the existing structure and by the way the addition is being called a mezzanine with three levels, (I'm thinking floors, but will go with it). and the warehouse is one floor.

So the back story and I wanted to upload a picture (plan) but it asks for an URL and I can not do that from work, to show how I have an unlimited building 1 story, sprinklered, with a 2 story addition already attached and are bounded by the 60" perimeter which puts a damper on things horizontally, but they are proposing this addition with a mezzanine intermediate levels with the first floor directly communicating with the rest of the building with this first floor (addition )being called B use, same for second (second floor does not open up to the rest of the existing building) and the 3rd floor dedicated to being and employee cafeteria (that's another argument, I think its a full blown kitchen like in a Wegmans, grocery store with self serve, type 1 hood, chow line and check out aisle computer lounge, ping pong table). All areas accessible ( elevator) with an exterior and interior stairs connecting all floors, (levels) and they are calling it a mezzanine.

we can skip the area increase and the 1/3 of or 1/2 of the total to size up the mezzanine as allowed by 505.2.1. So what is confusing is, is this a one story addition with a mezzanine with intermediate floor levels or a 3 story building?

Remember the first floor they knocked out the wall of the warehouse to connect with the addition so as to communicate with the space, plus they have a 12 x 12 atrium connecting all levels, I will floor opening instead to communicate all levels concurrently. .

I the question is, would you call this mezzanine with intermediate floor levels or a 3 story building?
Apologies for not being able to upload the file from the internet and long winded, been a tough week.

Thanks Bryant

 

[mtlogcabin]

903.2.1.3 (3) The fire area is located on a floor other than a level of exit discharge serving such occupancies.

definition: Mezzanine. An intermediate level or levels between the floor and ceiling of any story and in accordance with Section 505.

The mezzanine is included in the same story and fire area as the "level of discharge exit"

[BE] EXIT DISCHARGE, LEVEL OF. The story at the point at which an exit terminates and an exit discharge begins.

 

[Bryant]

I think I am not laying this out correctly. I still can't upload any pics or links without a url link, sorry.
So lets say you have 100,000 sq. ft. warehouse single story unlimited building and they are proposing to build an addition of what consists of 3 stories above grade. the designer is proposing to build the addition as an extension of the warehouse by attaching it to the warehouse.
One thing is apparent, can't be 3 stories with unlimited construction, hence the mezzanine approach.
So they want to knock out the 1st floor wall to communicate with the 3 story mezzanine (I think it is a 3 story addition) and by being a 1/3 of the total floor area of the warehouse doable. I guess my question rests on the interpretation of where does the mezzanines intermediate levels within the floor to ceiling truly begin? If by reading the definitions, I would think this has to be inside of the warehouse, not in a 3 story addition. Though by knocking out the first floor wall of the warehouse and communicating with the addition (mezzanine)on the first floor and a floor openings to the 2nd & 3rd levels, I don't see how that is compliant. And the fact that that have a full blown commerical kitchen for employees on the third floor (intermediate level) makes it more nonsensical to me. how do others see it.

So 1 story warehouse, proposing a mezzanine in the form of a 3 story addition with the first floor opening directly (communicating)with the first floor directly and lets call it a mini atrium, though I tend to think floor openings like in an escalator setup 12 ft. by 12 ft. going up thru the second level and third level with a skylight to cap it off. Definitely communicating in more than one way, but for sake staying on topic, the mezzanine (addition) is now communicating with the ware house. So the question is, is this mezzanine compliant by definition of being within the floor ceiling of the warehouse.

Sorry no specific code references, at home recovering from the mental meat grinder at work this past week, but the main sections IBC/VCC 505 and 507, 508 chapters for a reference.
I think it can not qualify as a mezzanine because it is not inside of the main building where the language seems to indicate. As an example and one of the exceptions where special industry complex's can have mezzanines up to 2/3 of the total area, think a smelting plant with mezzanines at intermediate levels within, the plant could be one story up 75 in height and have all this (floor areas) mezzanines inside from floor to ceiling...

Thanks

 

[ADAguy]

Still doesn"t get it, code cannot be less than ADA minimums.
If for observation that cannot be denied to disabled viewers

 

[Bryant]

Given this some thought on my time off from my job, go figure on Sunday and chomping at the bit. Lazy no code to reference today, winging it.

The question I should be asking is, I have an unlimited building allowed by height and area meeting the 60 ft all around and they want to add more space. The building in question is about 30 +/- ft. considering this one story. they certainly could put mezzanines in most areas of this building, but have elected to basically build a 3 story addition and call it a mezzanine. Of which consists of 1st & 2nd flr as wide open business space, (1st floor communicating atmospherically with the warehouse) guessing the office weenie type setup and the third floor is a commercial kitchen with all the bells and whistles to entertain the employees with lunch and dinner with ping pong and computer lounge, ( don't know if it is a 24/7 operation kitchen, suspect not). All of this in a proposed addition to the warehouse. Interesting enough there was a 2 story addition done in the past, but thats on another's watch and do not believe it will change my setup at the moment, not saying it meets code in ALL aspects, but for sake of argument, staying on topic with the 3 story mezzanine.
When reading all the definitions for a mezzanine, it appears to address the building from within, not an addition to make a mezzanine. But wait, if I can add to the existing warehouse do I not in affect allow that by extension to have a mezzanine?

Then I think the question would be, can I have a 3 story unlimited area building, (depending on how you interpret mezzanine level & intermediate level) that answer would be no with present conditions in my mind. (creating 2 separate fire areas would be the way around it, i do believe.).

But how can you push the mezzanine outside the existing building while altering the height by the addition and creating another story?

What I am flip flopping on is, can I create by extension a one story addition with 3 levels and butt it against the existing building that is only one story, in other words, I am adjusting the roof height at the addition to the max, I believe 75' while the existing warehouse is at it's single story height 30 ft or so?
I am leaning to not approving this design, others disagree...
Need some opinions...
Thanks in advance

 

[Bryant]

Given this some thought on my time off from my job, go figure on Sunday and chomping at the bit. Lazy no code to reference today, winging it.

The question I should be asking is, I have an unlimited building allowed by height and area meeting the 60 ft all around and they want to add more space. The building in question is about 30 +/- ft. considering this one story. they certainly could put mezzanines in most areas of this building, but have elected to basically build a 3 story addition and call it a mezzanine. Of which consists of 1st & 2nd flr as wide open business space, (1st floor communicating atmospherically with the warehouse) guessing the office weenie type setup and the third floor is a commercial kitchen with all the bells and whistles to entertain the employees with lunch and dinner with ping pong and computer lounge, ( don't know if it is a 24/7 operation kitchen, suspect not). All of this in a proposed addition to the warehouse. Interesting enough there was a 2 story addition done in the past, but thats on another's watch and do not believe it will change my setup at the moment, not saying it meets code in ALL aspects, but for sake of argument, staying on topic with the 3 story mezzanine.
When reading all the definitions for a mezzanine, it appears to address the building from within, not an addition to make a mezzanine. But wait, if I can add to the existing warehouse do I not in affect allow that by extension to have a mezzanine?

Then I think the question would be, can I have a 3 story unlimited area building, (depending on how you interpret mezzanine level & intermediate level) that answer would be no with present conditions in my mind. (creating 2 separate fire areas would be the way around it, i do believe.).

But how can you push the mezzanine outside the existing building while altering the height by the addition and creating another story?

What I am flip flopping on is, can I create by extension a one story addition with 3 levels and butt it against the existing building that is only one story, in other words, I am adjusting the roof height at the addition to the max, I believe 75' while the existing warehouse is at it's single story height 30 ft or so?
I am leaning to not approving this design, others disagree...
Need some opinions...
Thanks in advance

crickets

 

[steveray]

Interesting...Never though of multiple levels of mezzanines.....

 

[ADAguy]

still limited to 1/3rd the floor area total.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

Interesting...Never though of multiple levels of mezzanines.....

still limited to 1/3rd the floor area total.

do you add up the area of all (3) mezzanines to determine the 1/3rd area limitation?

 

[steveray]

Yep...there is some aggregate wording in there.....

 

[Bryant]

Interesting...Never though of multiple levels of mezzanines.....

that's what has me wondering, do we have a 3 story addition or an extension of the existing building and calling it a mezzanine. If I can find another to supply a plan cut or drawing without using an URL link to do it, it think it would be visually represented rather than trying to describe in totality.

 

[Bryant]

do you add up the area of all (3) mezzanines to determine the 1/3rd area limitation?

Yes indeed. That is why they proposed removing the wall at grade level in order to communicate "atmospherically" with the mezzanine (addition) to the existing warehouse space. The question always comes back to is it inside of warehouse from floor to ceiling or outside of. The addition/mezzanine in my opinion is outside of, but you could argue for an extension of the existing building and since they call it a mezzanine, escape calling it a 3 story addition of which could not be part of an unlimited building and would in my opinion again. create another fire area and thus a fire resistance rating at that point of connection. This is where my troubles begin, what is it....
Thanks

 

[steveray]

that's what has me wondering, do we have a 3 story addition or an extension of the existing building and calling it a mezzanine. If I can find another to supply a plan cut or drawing without using an URL link to do it, it think it would be visually represented rather than trying to describe in totality.

I am picturing a multilevel indoor driving range.....It could work....

 

[Bryant]

I am picturing a multilevel indoor driving range.....It could work....

That is a good analogy of use. I can see that as a multi tiered building with mezzanines at intermediate levels. Still the mezzanine levels are inside the building from floor to ceiling within that building. My problem is they are trying to have a one story building addition (the mezzanine piece) attached to the remaining warehouse, using the aggregate floor area of the warehouse to extract a 1/3 ratio for the mezzanine(s) in this case a three story building equally divided. The first floor area of the warehouse communicates atmospherically with the addition (mezzanine) at the first floor and someone was smart enough, I believe, to put basically an atrium of sorts (I would call it floor openings as an example escalator openings from one level to the next) so that the other two levels communicate atmospherically as well. On that, I had plenty of comments concerning the mechanical systems, but that is another problem.
Anyway need to think more on this. I may be approaching this from the wrong angle, in that considering the most restrictive requirements for the use, which could include separating areas (fire areas) rated assembly between and so on.

I have an unlimited area building F1, S1, B existing 100,000. sq. ft.
proposed mezzanine addition 33,000 sq. ft. 3 levels, 1st & 2nd business ( B), 3rd (A2) is totality a commercial kitchen for employees, cafeteria, dining lounge with computer lounge and ping pong table to boot and an outdoor patio, nice setup for a 3rd level mezzanine inside of a 3 story addition.
All of this attached to the warehouse, with out exceeding the height and area for a IIB construction fully sprinklered building.

I am missing a point of view backed up code, that is my dilemma, hence reaching out for advice.
Unfortunately, many other projects that need equally undivided attention as well, time sensitive. I guess I'll save this one for bar talk gossip at the next code update training
Thanks