Handrails - limit on lateral distance from walking surface?

[nealderidder]

Good Morning all. I'm pondering some shop drawings and came across something I'm not sure about. There are plenty of regulations around handrails. Things like height, diameter, graspability, projection limits etc. But I'm not seeing a limit on how far away from the walking surface a handrail can be. There is certainly a practical limit, but is there any code limit? I'm talking about the 3-1/4" dimension on the attached. Is 3.25" too far? How about 6" or 8"?

 

[mark handler]

IMHO
You need to comply with CBC Side Reach 11B-308.3.1 Unobstructed

 

[nealderidder]

Oh yeah, good one Mark. I could nitpick that and say - 10" to the inside face of handrail? outside face? center?

But that 10" max does give me something to hang my hat on. Thanks!

 

[nealderidder]

Of course if that figure is correct so is this one:



And I doubt a handrail in that position would pass inspection...

 

[steveray]

I believe one of our guys submitted a 2024 change to put a dimension on it, but I do not remember what...somewhere between 4" and 9"

 

[nealderidder]

I believe one of our guys submitted a 2024 change to put a dimension on it, but I do not remember what...somewhere between 4" and 9"

I just did a little mock up and 5-6" felt like a sweet spot. But that's just for a 5-10' tall man with no mobility issues.

 

[mark handler]

I just did a little mock up and 5-6" felt like a sweet spot. But that's just for a 5-10' tall man with no mobility issues.

And what about the wheelchair user?

 

[tbz]

Those are ADA reaching distances and A117.1 as noted in post #5 a little there is nothing that addresses this issue on stairs and ramps specifically within any published model code of the ICC.

However in the Part "A" cycle more than a few proposal where submitted to establish a range, they were disapproved during committee action hearings, but a single version was approved at the final action hearings in Pittsburgh. I have to look up the specific code change, however that information and documentation will be published in the 2024 IBC, and as thus is coming but not currently adopted by any AHJ I am currently aware of with a local modification.

 

[TheCommish]

If this is a ramp where is the lower rail?

 

[bill1952]

If this is a ramp where is the lower rail?

Help me out - where is that in the IBC? I know it's required in some assembly aisle handrails, though there its original intent is to prevent cross-unders and hanging from the top rail.

Thank you!

 

[TheCommish]

Accessibility requirements drive the lower rail, unless for some reason this is not on an accessible route

 

[bill1952]

Accessibility requirements drive the lower rail, unless for some reason this i snot on an accessible route

Thank you. All assume in A117.1 and look for it.

 

[nealderidder]

And what about the wheelchair user?

I'm not sure what you mean Mark. They've got a ramp with appropriate width, slopes, and landings. What am I missing?

 

[nealderidder]

If this is a ramp where is the lower rail?

By lower rail do you mean edge protection? If so, the concrete wall provides the required edge protection.

 

[Yikes]

Neal, since you are located in Sacramento, I assume that this is a California project. CBC 11B-505.5 places limits on how far away a handrail can be "recessed" away from the walking surface. I've superimposed it on your original sketch:

 

[steveray]

Why does the text say 3" and the drawing shows 3.25"?

 

[TheCommish]

ramp rail like this

 

[tbz]

Neal, since you are located in Sacramento, I assume that this is a California project. CBC 11B-505.5 places limits on how far away a handrail can be "recessed" away from the walking surface.

? Yikes,

So Cali has added in a modification to chapter 11 accessibility section, how is it applied to areas outside of chapter 11?

I guess I am wondering why they didn't just drop it in chapter 10?

Nice to know this modification is out there though, was news to me.

 

[tbz]

The wording is a little off also for interpretation, as it says the recess can only be 3-inches, not the distance to the closest point of the handrail.

Symantec's I know, but questionable.

 

[tbz]

Why does the text say 3" and the drawing shows 3.25"?

I think Yikes scaled the 3-1/4" from Neal's drawing to point out it was over the limit of 3-inches delineated by section 11B-505.5, only a guess though.

 

[mark handler]

I'm not sure what you mean Mark. They've got a ramp with appropriate width, slopes, and landings. What am I missing?

You are placing the rail at "...5-6"a so called "sweet spot".
Your sweet spot will not work for a wheelchair user.

 

[Inspector Gift]

When the code is silent, we look at it from a different perspective using intent and purpose.
Given the minimum required width is provided between the handrails. (2018 IBC, Secdtion 1012.5.1)
and given that "Projections into the required width of aisles, stairways and ramps at each side shall not exceed 4 1/2 inches at or below the handrail (per IBC 1014.8), we allow no more than 4.5".

 

[Jean Tessmer-HI]

Good Morning all. I'm pondering some shop drawings and came across something I'm not sure about. There are plenty of regulations around handrails. Things like height, diameter, graspability, projection limits etc. But I'm not seeing a limit on how far away from the walking surface a handrail can be. There is certainly a practical limit, but is there any code limit? I'm talking about the 3-1/4" dimension on the attached. Is 3.25" too far? How about 6" or 8"?

FHAG ANSI A117.1 1986 (4.8.5(6) ramps, 4.9.4(6) stairs= 30-34 inches. ADA 34 to 38 inches, (505.4). can you see where I am going. If you make it 34" Max to the top of the graspable (round) surface. You will meet both the ADA and FHA requirements.

 

[Jean Tessmer-HI]

Good Morning all. I'm pondering some shop drawings and came across something I'm not sure about. There are plenty of regulations around handrails. Things like height, diameter, graspability, projection limits etc. But I'm not seeing a limit on how far away from the walking surface a handrail can be. There is certainly a practical limit, but is there any code limit? I'm talking about the 3-1/4" dimension on the attached. Is 3.25" too far? How about 6" or 8"?

For FHA it is 3" with the inside face of the graspable handrail in line with the wall below. see ANSI A117.1 1986 diagram 4.24 figure 39 (d) or ADA 505.5 and Figure 505.5. I don't understand the reference to the walking surface. you can go to the US Access boards website to see illustrations of the ADA requirements.