Storage area (S) next to Factory Industrial (F)

[Roman07]

Hi everyone, I am hoping someone can provide some insight on the following issue:
I work on an industrial facility in which space is a luxury.
I am trying to get for us a couple of fully enclosed CNC machines and a waterjet (abrasive type) and the only area I can take some space is the warehouse which is classified as (S) Low hazard storage.
My plan was to mount the equipment on one of the corners of the building as that gives me two walls and due to budget reasons I just wanted to run chainlink fence to fully enclose the area.
The equipment does not produce sparks as it runs with coolant on the cnc’s, and the waterjet does not produce sparks with any of the materials that we would be cutting.

Some people tells me that I might need to build the remainder walls with cinderblock and put a ceiling over it to completely isolate the fabrication area from the storage area?

Can someone chime in on this please? I have looked online but can’t find anything specific to that topic.


Thank you!

 

[walker.t]

I am trying to get for us a couple of fully enclosed CNC machines and a waterjet (abrasive type) and the only area I can take some space is the warehouse which is classified as (S) Low hazard storage.

Is this an F-1 or F-2 facility? Is the building sprinklered? By chance is the warehouse storage an accessory use to a larger F use? Per IBC 508.2.3 it would be considered accessory if the S use is less than 10% of the floor area and the S use is ancillary to the F use.

Some people tells me that I might need to build the remainder walls with cinderblock and put a ceiling over it to completely isolate the fabrication area from the storage area?

Did they tell you why they thought you needed to use CMU? What do they know about the building that you haven’t mentioned? What is the construction type of the building?

What you’ve described so far indicates some kind of mixed use, we’d need to know the square footage of the areas and the construction type of the building to determine if it’s nonseparated or separated mixed use per IBC 508. Per Table 508.4 it looks like your maximum separation would be 2- hour in a non-sprinklered building which you can get without CMU.

I just wanted to run chainlink fence to fully enclose the area.

Your definition of “fully enclose the area” is pretty loose, that may prevent unauthorized people from messing with the equipment but there is no sound isolation or heating/cooling control in the CNC area.

 

[Roman07]

Hi all, thank you for replying.

F1 (U.N.O) and S1 areas, the entire building has sprinkler systems, the warehouse specially has sprinkler systems attached to every rack.
If I understand correctly, our warehouse is an accessory for our production area which currently has a F1 Occupancy. However, within the next two months it will become an H4 occupancy.

We have one building divided by walls:
Production Area: 125 x 260 ft (H4)
Converting Area: 156 x 104 ft (F1)
Warehouse Area: 156 x 156 ft (S1)

The proposed fabrication area would sit on one of the bottom corner area of the Storage building. (25 x 25 ft) (Occupancy: Not known, thinking F1?)

Not sure why they are calling for cinder block, they are a small local contracting company. My assumption is that we would have a fabrication area right next to the storage area, so they figured this would prevent any potential sparks to fly to the storage area.
The cnc machines are fully enclosed and it cuts with coolant and do not produce sparks, the waterjet cuts with water and does not produce sparks either.

As in the walls for the building there are two 2 hr fire walls that separate the warehouse from our production area (h4) and from our converting area.
The other two sides of the warehouse are external walls made out of cinder block.

Better clarifying the fully enclosed machinery, I was referring that in both CNC machines from haas the work area is fully enclosed and would not allow any sparks to fly out. The waterjet is an open table and will not be enclosed.
All three machines would go on a 25 x 25 ft area meeting all the spacing requirements.

As for noise, the CNC's produce 70 dB's and the waterjet can go up to 80 dB's, they would not all run at the same time and ear protection will be a requirement at all times.

I tried to attach a quick drawing on the plant layout but couldn't figure out the "Attach Image" feature as it asks for a link.

Thank you again!

 

[walker.t]

Hi all, thank you for replying.

You’re welcome, thank you for the additional information.

I tried to attach a quick drawing on the plant layout but couldn't figure out the "Attach Image" feature as it asks for a link.

I won’t be able to respond with my thoughts until later today. I did want to mention quickly that attaching files to posts is a feature that is accessible only for Sawhorse members, you can upgrade to a Sawhorse account or provide a link to something like Google Drive. Here’s a link for more information:

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Monthly membership is $5.95 which is the cheapest option.

 

[steveray]

The H use would be separated.... the F1 and S1 likely do not need to be....What is the H4 for?

 

[Roman07]

If I am getting your question right and I apologize as I am not well versed on this, the production area includes our bulk tanks and chemical delivery systems which one of them is consider hazardous but not flammable or explosive.
In the event of a release, the entire production area should be contained, and it was determined to be an H4 occupancy, but it is outside of my scope on this.
And yes, the H4 is indeed separated by a 2 hr. fire wall per the drawing.

 

[Roman07]

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Hi everyone, I am hoping someone can provide some insight on the following issue:
I work on an industrial facility in which space is a luxury.
I am trying to get for us a couple of fully enclosed CNC machines and a waterjet (abrasive type) and the only area I can take some space is the warehouse which is classified as (S) Low hazard storage.

F1 (U.N.O) and S1 areas, the entire building has sprinkler systems, the warehouse specially has sprinkler systems attached to every rack.
If I understand correctly, our warehouse is an accessory for our production area which currently has a F1 Occupancy. However, within the next two months it will become an H4 occupancy.

S-1 is moderate hazard storage, not low-hazard storage. Which is it?

 

[walker.t]

And yes, the H4 is indeed separated by a 2 hr. fire wall per the drawing.

Are you sure they are fire walls or are they walls with a 2-hour rating? That’s an important distinction that affects my comments below.

We have one building divided by walls:
Production Area: 125 x 260 ft (H4)
Converting Area: 156 x 104 ft (F1)
Warehouse Area: 156 x 156 ft (S1)

I calculated your areas below. I will assume you have Type IIIB construction and I listed the allowable area factors from Table 506.2 for a single story sprinklered building. I am also assuming you do not have fire walls even though that’s the term you used.

I checked the areas because you mention a change of use to H-4 so I wanted to confirm the proposed area did not exceed the allowable area factor. I did this by checking IBC 506.2.2 which refers to Equation 5-1 in 506.2.1, I ignored the frontage increase because I don’t know if your building qualifies for that.

Next, 506.3.3 (mixed-occupancy, one-story buildings) tells us we have to meet the applicable requirements for mixed occupancy buildings in 508.1. You can’t use nonseparated mixed use per 508.3 because the entire building area exceeds the most restrictive area requirement (the 48,000 s.f. for F-1) so that means you will need to meet the requirements of 508.4 Separated Occupancies.

508.4.2 is the “unity formula” per the following:

S-1 Warehouse: 23,711 s.f./70,000 s.f. allowable = 0.339
New F-1 Fabrication Shop: 625 s.f./48,000 s.f. allowable = 0.013
H-4 Production Line: 31,600 s.f./70,000 s.f. allowable = 0.451
F-1 Maintenance Shop: 900 s.f./48,000 s.f. allowable = 0.019
F-1 Converting: 16,224 s.f./48,000 s.f. allowable = 0.338
Total of ratios: 1.16

You’ll need to do something to bring this down below 1.0, here are some suggestions:

1. Update the allowable areas using a frontage increase per 506.3. If your building is surrounding with a moderate amount of open space you might be able to get below 1.0 by doing this.
2. Confirm the construction type and recalculate the ratios if you have something greater than the Type IIIB construction I assumed.
3. If you do have Type IIIB per my assumption, you could investigate adding ratings per Table 601 to change the construction type to Type IIIA.
4. Reduce the area converted to H-4 to bring the ratio down below 1.0.
5. Divide the building with a fire wall. Per the definition of “Fire Wall” in Chapter 2, it’s more than a wall with a high fire rating, it has to withstand collapse of construction on either side of the wall in a fire and has to extend from the foundation to or through the roof. If indeed you do have 2-hour fire walls then you’d calculate the ratios on each side and probably be OK.
6. Wait for someone else on the forum to correct my analysis, I could be wrong!

As for the separation between occupancies, that’s in Table 508.4. Follow the “H-4 S” column down until it in intersections the “B, F-1 M, S-1” row and it says you need a 1-hour separation for those occupancies next to the H-4 use. Then for the F-1 and S-1 uses, because they are in the same group you don’t need a separation between those - so that confirms steveray’s comment in #5.

Where I practice, a change of use or change in egress automatically triggers the need for sealed drawings, assuming that’s the case where the project is located you’ll need to get an architect involved.

As for noise, the CNC's produce 70 dB's and the waterjet can go up to 80 dB's, they would not all run at the same time and ear protection will be a requirement at all times.

You mentioned wanting to use chainlink fence, if it was me I’d enclose it with solid walls so people outside of the CNC area aren’t bothered by the sound. That’s just my opinion.

 

[Roman07]

Thank you for that.
The blueprint says exactly “2 hr fire wall” and those two walls that separate the warehouse are drawn twice as wide than the regular cinder block walls surrounding the building.
As in for the S vs S1, the blueprint shows S but on the same blueprint on the right hand side it has a table with what I would call data, descriptions or notes and it says S1.
So S1 sounds right to me.
In order for us to bring the total ratio below 1.0 and looking into the frontage increase.
Is this areas on the facility that do not have anything constructed (no walls)?
The little sketch I put together shows only what is surrounded by walls, but outside of it we have the parking lot, docks area, pallet area and tankers unload area.
However, I do not see this in the blueprints.
It is not much larger but it does surround the entire building.
Again, thank you for taking the time to crunch those numbers and replying to this post.

 

[walker.t]

The blueprint says exactly “2 hr fire wall” and those two walls that separate the warehouse are drawn twice as wide than the regular cinder block walls surrounding the building.

OK, then that’s good if you do have a fire wall meeting the definition in IBC Chapter 2. The fire walls subdivide the building into smaller “buildings” for code analysis purposes. That means you have three “buildings” and the area of the occupancies in each area is below the allowable area so no problems with the ratio calculation.

In order for us to bring the total ratio below 1.0 and looking into the frontage increase.

The ratio calculation is not a problem now because the area of each “building” (the part that is separated by the fire walls) is well within the allowable areas for the occupancies. You won’t even need frontage increase to make that work, so you don’t have to worry about that either.

Again, thank you for taking the time to crunch those numbers and replying to this post.

You’re welcome, I apologize for the erroneous conclusion I made based on assuming you didn’t have fire walls when that’s what your drawings say are in the building.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Thank you for that.
The blueprint says exactly “2 hr fire wall” and those two walls that separate the warehouse are drawn twice as wide than the regular cinder block walls surrounding the building.

Too many design professionals (especially architects, unfortunately) throw around the term "firewall" indiscriminately, applying it to any wall with a fire-resistance rating. In the IBC there are "fire walls," "fire barriers," and "fire partitions." Each has purposes for which they are required. The firewall has the most stringent construction requirements. A fire wall must be designed and constructed such that the construction on either side can collapse without causing either the firewall or the construction on the non-fire side to collapse. [paraphrased]

If what you need is a firewall, do NOT rely on a plan that doesn't know the difference between 'S' and 'S-1," or the difference between moderate hazard and low hazard storage. Look at the actual construction to verify whether or not it is a firewall.

 

[steveray]

F1/ S1 sprinklered should never need to be separated.....If you did, what rating would you use?

 

[steveray]

And then there is this:

507.8​

Group H-2, H-3 and H-4 occupancies shall be permitted in unlimited area buildings containing Group F or S occupancies in accordance with Sections 507.4 and 507.5 and the provisions of Sections 507.8.1 through 507.8.4.

The F and S would be allowed to be unlimited area at 1 story sprinklered other than type V construction 60' perimeter and the H might be allowed as "accessory"(sort of)....

 

[Roman07]

Thank you for your comment. Like I mentioned earlier, never in my life had even seen a blueprint of a building so I might be wrong, my background is electrical and instrumentation.
I am attaching a section of the drawing as maybe it gives better feedback on what it really is.

 

[Roman07]

It is incredible the amount of data that needs to be processed to make a change on a building so kudos to you all.
In an effort of understanding this a bit better, here are a few questions which is the original intent:

a) Can I take the small 24 x 25 ft area from the storage S1 area and make it the fabrication shop?

b) Per Walker.t suggestion I would build two walls to enclose the fabrication shop. Budget being a concern, what wall materials could be used?
I guess I am still not so clear on what type of material would satisfy the code to separate the warehouse S1 from the Fabrication shop that I would be putting in? Can it be drywall with insulating material to dampen the noise? Does it has to be a "fire wall"? Cinder block?

c) Does the shop area need a ceiling/roof? Assuming it does, is there a requirement on the materials for it?

d) If I enclose the shop, then I imagine sprinklers would need to be run inside of the shop even though the building above it has sprinklers?

 

[Roman07]

OK, then that’s good if you do have a fire wall meeting the definition in IBC Chapter 2. The fire walls subdivide the building into smaller “buildings” for code analysis purposes. That means you have three “buildings” and the area of the occupancies in each area is below the allowable area so no problems with the ratio calculation.


The ratio calculation is not a problem now because the area of each “building” (the part that is separated by the fire walls) is well within the allowable areas for the occupancies. You won’t even need frontage increase to make that work, so you don’t have to worry about that either.


You’re welcome, I apologize for the erroneous conclusion I made based on assuming you didn’t have fire walls when that’s what your drawings say are in the building.

no worries, I am really not even certain if they are indeed or not, so I just attached the drawings to see what you conclude of it.

 

[steveray]

The fabrication shop does not need to be separated unless it is part of the H4...F1 and S1 should need no separation in a sprinklered building....

 

[walker.t]

Too many design professionals (especially architects, unfortunately) throw around the term "firewall" indiscriminately, applying it to any wall with a fire-resistance rating.

Yeah, no kidding, that’s what I had in mind when I assumed they were not fire walls. Two layers of sheetrock on the wall? Yep, that’s a fire wall!

I am attaching a section of the drawing as maybe it gives better feedback on what it really is.

The drawing you show doesn’t show enough information to confirm if that is indeed a fire wall. If it was new construction there would be a detail of the roof/wall connection (confirming that construction on either side can collapse and leave the wall standing) and there’d be a UL number to establish the required rating.

If what you need is a firewall, do NOT rely on a plan that doesn't know the difference between 'S' and 'S-1," or the difference between moderate hazard and low hazard storage. Look at the actual construction to verify whether or not it is a firewall.

This is prudent advice - moderate to significant errors elsewhere make you wonder what other information may also be an error. An inspection of the existing condition is the only way to know for sure, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for your building department to require a certification by a structural engineer and architect that it is indeed a fire wall.

In an effort of understanding this a bit better, here are a few questions which is the original intent:

I have a few comments in response to your #16 post, I’ll work on those later.

 

[walker.t]

a) Can I take the small 24 x 25 ft area from the storage S1 area and make it the fabrication shop?

Yes. Per your #7 drawing, you can take a corner of your S-1 Warehouse space and create your new F-1 Fabrication Shop.

The fabrication shop does not need to be separated unless it is part of the H4...F1 and S1 should need no separation in a sprinklered building....

As steveray noted, you do not need to have fire-rated construction between the existing S-1 use and the proposed F-1 use. This is based on IBC Table 508.4.

b) Per Walker.t suggestion I would build two walls to enclose the fabrication shop. Budget being a concern, what wall materials could be used?
I guess I am still not so clear on what type of material would satisfy the code to separate the warehouse S1 from the Fabrication shop that I would be putting in? Can it be drywall with insulating material to dampen the noise? Does it has to be a "fire wall"? Cinder block?

Regarding budget, that’s a good question for your contractor, my guess is they’ll suggest wood framing, one layer of 5/8” wallboard, cavity filled with insulation to help dampen sound. If your budget allows for an upgrade, you can use 2x6 top and bottom plates with staggered 2x4 studs and a second layer of wallboard on the inside of the room that is installed on resilient metal channels.

The wall does not have to be a fire wall in the true meaning of the term as defined in IBC Chapter 2. It does not have to be made out of CMU.

c) Does the shop area need a ceiling/roof? Assuming it does, is there a requirement on the materials for it?

In that it does not require a fire separation, it would not need a ceiling or have walls that go to the underside of the roof. If you don’t take the walls up to the roof or don’t add a ceiling then I wouldn’t bother with doing anything special for sound proofing in the walls.

d) If I enclose the shop, then I imagine sprinklers would need to be run inside of the shop even though the building above it has sprinklers?

Yes, any new room you create will need to be sprinklered. There’s a chance you’ll need to add sprinkler heads even if you only build 8’ walls around the shop area, that’s a question for a sprinkler engineer.

 

[Roman07]

Walker.t, Steveray and Yankee Chronicler, I appreciate all the time you've spent on helping me out with this. I feel I have a path forward now.
I wish you and your family's happy holidays and a blessed 2025!

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

This is prudent advice - moderate to significant errors elsewhere make you wonder what other information may also be an error. An inspection of the existing condition is the only way to know for sure, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for your building department to require a certification by a structural engineer and architect that it is indeed a fire wall.

It's advice born from experience. Many years ago I worked as a code consultant for the architect who (at least at that time) was the preeminent code consultant in our state. Pretty much any architect who wanted a clean permitting process hired my boss to advise during the design phase. We had a very well-known architect who had a commission to design an addition to a high school. They had pretty much completed the design before hiring us, I think with the idea that if we showed up with them at a meeting with the local building official they would get a free pass on a detailed plan review.

Whatever their strategy was, it didn't work. One thing they missed was that the building official was a smart guy. The other thing they missed was that he was an architect, so he wasn't at all impressed by architects. I was assigned to go along with our client's design team to the initial meeting with the town's building department. The team opened up the drawings and weren't even getting warmed up when the building official casually mentioned that, "You're making this into a very large building. How does that work under the height and area limitations?"

The project architect proudly declared that they had a copy of the original construction drawings for the school and that it was a Type i-A fireproof building, so they were well within the allowable area. The building official leaned back in his chair and said, "There isn't a fireproof building anywhere in this town. Go back and do your homework."

Yes, the original construction drawings had classified the construction as Type I-A. They had their structural engineer review the original design, and he concluded that it wasn't even Type I-B, it was at best Type II-A. And that suddenly brought the area limitations into play in a big way. We had to introduce not one but two firewalls to split the school up into separate "buildings" for purposes of area limitations.

That's why I recommend against relying on old construction drawings.