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Health department says water is not safe to drink,

Yikes said:
  • California may require a building to install conduits and breaker space for future EV chargers, even if there is no plan to install a charger in the present.
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My clever state now requires new public buildings to provide a proportion (based on the total number of parking spaces) of spaces with "infrastructure" for future EV charging stations. The statute doesn't define what "infrastructure" means. Is it just a couple of additional circuit breakers and ensuring that the service can handle the additional load, or does that also mean running a conduit and pull tape to each future charging station location? Nobody knows. I generally hold out for the conduit, but I don't know what would happen if someone were to challenge it.
 
jar546 said:
If the business lacks potable water, it cannot lawfully remain open. It must either connect to a public supply, install an approved treatment system certified by the health department, or remain closed until the water is proven safe for human use. Some of you are missing the bigger picture.
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Rumor has it that a government run 24/7 living facility in north of LA city limits has not had potable water in their plumbing system for years, as it tests too high for certain chemicals. They could never get capital improvements funding approval to repair the water supply system, but they have operations budget approval to supply every occupant with bottled water, which of course costs dramatically more than just fixing the system.
 
Yikes said:
Rumor has it that a government run 24/7 living facility in north of LA city limits has not had potable water in their plumbing system for years, as it tests too high for certain chemicals. They could never get capital improvements funding approval to repair the water supply system, but they have operations budget approval to supply every occupant with bottled water, which of course costs dramatically more than just fixing the system.
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This is just so *government*
I swear, half the officials in government can't do basic math.

The classic example from my area was from a buncha years ago. A big highway project was well underway, and the contractor offered to do all the preparatory work - grading and fill - for an artificial turf field at the high school - a good $250k of work at the time. The municipality could have had the turf field in place for a $300,000 investment with provincial/federal matching grants.

The municipality turned down the deal, saying it was "too expensive" to come up with $300,000k.

The cost of mowing and maintaining the swampy, clay-based, pothole-ridden pile of crap they call a field, at the time, amounted to $30,000/year.

The intelligent among you will recognize that you don't have to mow, fertilize, seed, re-seed, or irrigate a turf field. The turf field would have *saved* $30k/year.

They're still moving and fixing that expanse of garbage 15 years later. At now more than $30,000/year.

Government math.
 
jar546 said:
If the business lacks potable water, it cannot lawfully remain open. It must either connect to a public supply, install an approved treatment system certified by the health department, or remain closed until the water is proven safe for human use. Some of you are missing the bigger picture.
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Is that my role?
 
jar546 said:
If the business lacks potable water, it cannot lawfully remain open. It must either connect to a public supply, install an approved treatment system certified by the health department, or remain closed until the water is proven safe for human use. Some of you are missing the bigger picture.
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Show me the code that supports your declaration.
 
Inspector Gadget said:
Show me the code that supports your declaration.
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If the health department declares the water unsafe, it is, by definition, no longer potable. Under IPC 602.1, every structure equipped with plumbing fixtures and used for human occupancy must be provided with a potable water supply. Once the water is deemed non-potable, that requirement is not met.

IBC 2902.1 also requires plumbing fixtures to be connected to an approved water supply, and IBC 111.1 prohibits issuing a Certificate of Occupancy until the structure complies with all applicable codes and ordinances.

In short, a building without potable water cannot meet the plumbing or building code requirements for occupancy. No potable water means no CO and no lawful operation of a business that requires water.
 
jar546 said:
If you enforce the building and plumbing code, then yes.
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2021 Pennsylvania Plumbing Code
[A] 102.9 Requirements Not Covered by Code
Any requirements necessary for the strength, stability or proper operation of an existing or proposed plumbing system, or for the public safety, health and general welfare, not specifically covered by this code shall be determined by the code official.

301.4 Connections to Water Supply
Every plumbing fixture, device or appliance requiring or using water for its proper operation shall be directly or indirectly connected to the water supply system in accordance with the provisions of this code.

PPC 202 Definitions
Water supply system. The flow of water or other liquids, mixtures or substances into the distribution pipes of a potable water supply from any source except the intended source.

POTABLE WATER. Water free from impurities present in amounts sufficient to cause disease or harmful physiological effects and conforming to the bacteriological and chemical quality requirements of the Public Health Service Drinking Water Standards or the regulations of the public health authority having jurisdiction.

602.2 Potable Water Required
Only potable water shall be supplied to plumbing fixtures that provide water for drinking, bathing or culinary purposes, or for the processing of food, medical or pharmaceutical products. Unless otherwise provided in this code, potable water shall be supplied to all plumbing fixtures.
602.3 Individual Water Supply
Where a potable public water supply is not available, individual sources of potable water supply shall be utilized.
602.3.1 Sources
Dependent on geological and soil conditions and the amount of rainfall, individual water supplies are of the following types: drilled well, driven well, dug well, boredwell, spring, stream or cistern. Surface bodies of water and land cisterns shall not be sources of individual water supply unless properly treated by approved means to prevent contamination. Individual water supplies shall be constructed and installed in accordance with the applicable state and local laws. Where such laws do not address all of the requirements set forth in NGWA-01, individual water supplies shall comply with NGWA-01 for those requirements not addressed by state and local laws.
 
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Yikes said:
2021 Pennsylvania Plumbing Code
[A] 102.9 Requirements Not Covered by Code
Any requirements necessary for the strength, stability or proper operation of an existing or proposed plumbing system, or for the public safety, health and general welfare, not specifically covered by this code shall be determined by the code official.

301.4 Connections to Water Supply
Every plumbing fixture, device or appliance requiring or using water for its proper operation shall be directly or indirectly connected to the water supply system in accordance with the provisions of this code.

PPC 202 Definitions
Water supply system. The flow of water or other liquids, mixtures or substances into the distribution pipes of a potable water supply from any source except the intended source.

POTABLE WATER. Water free from impurities present in amounts sufficient to cause disease or harmful physiological effects and conforming to the bacteriological and chemical quality requirements of the Public Health Service Drinking Water Standards or the regulations of the public health authority having jurisdiction.

602.2 Potable Water Required
Only potable water shall be supplied to plumbing fixtures that provide water for drinking, bathing or culinary purposes, or for the processing of food, medical or pharmaceutical products. Unless otherwise provided in this code, potable water shall be supplied to all plumbing fixtures.
602.3 Individual Water Supply
Where a potable public water supply is not available, individual sources of potable water supply shall be utilized.
602.3.1 Sources
Dependent on geological and soil conditions and the amount of rainfall, individual water supplies are of the following types: drilled well, driven well, dug well, boredwell, spring, stream or cistern. Surface bodies of water and land cisterns shall not be sources of individual water supply unless properly treated by approved means to prevent contamination. Individual water supplies shall be constructed and installed in accordance with the applicable state and local laws. Where such laws do not address all of the requirements set forth in NGWA-01, individual water supplies shall comply with NGWA-01 for those requirements not addressed by state and local laws.
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Read my post above yours. Chapter 1 is not recognized by PA, they have their own.
 
Inspector Gadget said:
This is just so *government*
I swear, half the officials in government can't do basic math.
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I'll do you one better. There's a stretch of highway a bit south of me that had two lanes in either direction. It was a huge bottle neck for decades, causing un ungodly number of hours of delays and excess pollution. I'm talking a trip that would normally take 10 minutes taking 50 minutes.

The government said "we'll fix it - add an extra lane on each side".

About $1 billion later, after 30 years of construction, the project finished. Traffic substantially improved... for about a week I think. Then, someone decided to increase the carpool hours. Now traffic is worse than ever before.

I know this is off topic, but I find this so funny (in a miserable way) that I had to share.
 
jar546 said:
If you enforce the building and plumbing code, then yes.
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Here, that would be a Department of Health call. Nothing in our plumbing code explicitly requires a potable system for a building.

There are requirements when potable systems are provided. There are requirements when non-potable systems are provided. There are requirements when buildings have both systems.
 
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