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13R or 13D

I thought once you go R you sprinkle the entire building????

More then likely 13R
 
If the two occupancies are separated by a firewall they are two separate buildings and two separate fire areas. I think it's a 13D, but I may be wrong. The B wouldn't need to be sprinklered if two separate buildings.
 
High Desert said:
If the two occupancies are separated by a firewall they are two separate buildings and two separate fire areas. I think it's a 13D, but I may be wrong. The B wouldn't need to be sprinklered if two separate buildings.
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Where in the code does a 2-hour fire barrier automatically make it a seperate building?

Would this be a live work unit under the 2009?
 
It has to be the appropriate 2-hour wall.

706.1 General. Each portion of a building separated by one or

more fire walls that comply with the provisions of this section

shall be considered a separate building. The extent and location

of such fire walls shall provide a complete separation. Where a

fire wall also separates occupancies that are required to be separated

by a fire barrier wall, the most restrictive requirements

of each separation shall apply
 
If you sprinkler the entire building, then the residential part must be designed to 13 or 13R. A 13D system can only be used in limited situations: one- and two-family dwellings.
 
A 13 R system would be required.....IMHO. The scope of the IRC is for detached 1 &2 family dwellings or townhomes. A R-3 occupancy does not exist int he code language of the IRC.

(we are still stuck in the 2006 ed in SC.)

The biggest problem I see is trying to mix and match the scope of the IRC with the IBC. (My hangup is the word detached.)
 
Make sure we are not talking apples and oranges. There is a large difference between a "fire wall" (read the definition) and a wall that is rated for a 2 hour fire separation.
 
If this isn't a home-business then why would you have a B attached to an R-3, or is this a rental next to a bar?
 
Buildings containing an R occupancy require sprinklers throughout.

If the R occupancy is a one or two family dwelling then a 13d sprinkler system may be used.

If the occupancy is eligible for 13R then that may be used.

If there is a true firewall then there are two buildings and the B side will not require sprinklers.

However, a firewall for a B occupancy is required to be three hours, not two.
 
NFPA 13D is the standard for the “Installation of Sprinkler Systems in One and Two-Family Dwellings

and Manufactured Homes” (basically an individual unit system)

NFPA 13R is the standard for the “Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Residential Occupancies up to and

Including Four Stories in Height” (a whole building system)

Just a single R, NFPA 13D
 
mark handler said:
NFPA 13D is the standard for the “Installation of Sprinkler Systems in One and Two-Family Dwellingsand Manufactured Homes” (basically an individual unit system)

NFPA 13R is the standard for the “Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Residential Occupancies up to and

Including Four Stories in Height” (a whole building system)

Just a single R, NFPA 13D
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Two dwellings can also be a 13D.
 
brudgers said:
Two dwellings can also be a 13D.
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ReRead the quoted text in your post "NFPA 13D is the standard for the “Installation of Sprinkler Systems in One and Two-Family Dwellings"
 
mark handler said:
ReRead the quoted text in your post "NFPA 13D is the standard for the “Installation of Sprinkler Systems in One and Two-Family Dwellings"
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A 13D can be installed in an entire building.

Most are.

13R and 13D are both designed to protect residents neither is intended to protect any other occupancy and neither is more applicable to a B or M occupancy than the other.
 
brudgers said:
13R and 13D are both designed to protect residents neither is intended to protect any other occupancy and neither is more applicable to a B or M occupancy than the other.
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13R provides references to NFPA 13 for areas that are beyond it's scope, while 13D does not contain any such reference, other than to say that 13 or 13R should be used for the residential portions of all other buildings. So I would say that 13R is much more applicable to mixed occupancy buildings. 13R covers residential buildings, so you could have a single apartment attached to the end of a shopping mall, and as long as all the appropriate code provisions are met, the building could be protected in accordance with NFPA 13R.
 
RBK said:
13R provides references to NFPA 13 for areas that are beyond it's scope, while 13D does not contain any such reference, other than to say that 13 or 13R should be used for the residential portions of all other buildings. So I would say that 13R is much more applicable to mixed occupancy buildings. 13R covers residential buildings, so you could have a single apartment attached to the end of a shopping mall, and as long as all the appropriate code provisions are met, the building could be protected in accordance with NFPA 13R.
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Is It "one" Mixed use Building?
 
RBK said:
13R provides references to NFPA 13 for areas that are beyond it's scope, while 13D does not contain any such reference, other than to say that 13 or 13R should be used for the residential portions of all other buildings. So I would say that 13R is much more applicable to mixed occupancy buildings. 13R covers residential buildings, so you could have a single apartment attached to the end of a shopping mall, and as long as all the appropriate code provisions are met, the building could be protected in accordance with NFPA 13R.
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Neither 13D or 13R is applicable to anything other than residential occupancies.

Although 13R is a higher standard because it has a separate supply, flow and tamper switch, and other requirements - that does not make it any more applicable. It's only goal is to get people out of the building just like 13D and unlike 13 which is also intended to protect the structure.

Keep in mind that the reason a sprinkler is required is because of the dwelling(s). Yes if there are three apartments then 13R or full 13 is required. But 13D will meet the requirements for one or two dwellings within the structure.

I am sure you would like it to be another way, but it isn't so it's best to just accept the code as written.
 
Don't get hung up on what NFPA scopes are - The requirement for installation of te sprinkler system is from the code. A standard only tells how it is to be installed.

The scope of the IRC is for "detached" one and two family dwellings or townhomes. A building with a firewall might make a seperate building but does not make it detached if it abuts another building.

The scope of NFPA 13, 13R, and 13 D are irrelvent when the code mandates the installation. I would like to think that the NFPA documents would be similar or mirror the scope of the applicable building code. However, the NFPA 13R does not have a height limitation with it --- just the number of stories. The Building code limits the height to 60 feet.
 
RICKS not here

so if the R was on top of the B would the entire buidling have to be sprinkled?????????????? even with a two hour wall???
 
If the R is on top of B, a wall won't separate them into two buildings.

Under IBC any building containing a group R fire area must be sprinklered throughout.
 
One story type VB construction.

Owner will live in unit but "B" is much larger than the "R". So it can't be a live/work unit

They are talking about buiding a "true fire wall"

706.1 Fire walls make a seprate building. So it won't me a mixed occupancy

Table 706.4 (a) Type V construction only needs 2 hr. walls

903.3.1.3 one and two family dwellings can use NFPA 13D

Sprinkler co. is trying to tell me they can use 13D.

I think it should be 13R, but not sure.

Major problem, no public water, must use a well.

What do you say, 13R or 13D?
 
1. Why do you think it should be 13R - based on the building code, I mean?

2. Is it just so you can make the building prohibitively expense due to the lack of municipal water supply?
 
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