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A real life example of the need for ADA

ADAguy said:
You assume that the majority of inspectors are well aware what provides access, not so much for new, as for exsiting being remodeled. Awareness may vary subject to knowledge, experience and outside "influential" particpants in the approval process.

Discretionary latitude is a commendable goal but is it attainable?
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One of the areas I struggle with is the multi-layered and overlapping Codes-Rules-Laws. Accessibility is addressed in the IBC, A117, ADAAG, and Illinois' own Accessibility Code.

I approve plans and inspections based on my knowledge base which, due to the size of our Building Department (army of one), must also cover the disciplines of building, electrical, mechanical, plumbing, energy, zoning, floodplain, et. al.

Most of the regs here are locally adopted and I know them well. Plumbing is State-wide and relatively unchanged over the years. Energy is also State, but it's the 2012 IECC. Point being, I know these Codes and I am able to have some "discretionary latitude" as needed.

The ADA regs on the other hand, being enforced at the Federal level, all bets are off. Example - If I'm looking at a guardrail that varies from 35-3/4" to 36-1/4" high (nice work) I may be able to approve it. If I'm checking grab rails, counter heights, door signs, etc. the overwhelming argument seems to be that ZERO leniency is allowed.

I'm all for following the rules, but the built environment can never be as perfect as the CAD drafted plans and laws design it to be. We (builders/inspectors) just need some room for common sense and an occasional "oops" without threat of violating someone's civil rights.

$0.02 mj
 
mjesse said:
The ADA regs on the other hand, being enforced at the Federal level, all bets are off. Example - If I'm looking at a guardrail that varies from 35-3/4" to 36-1/4" high (nice work) I may be able to approve it. If I'm checking grab rails, counter heights, door signs, etc. the overwhelming argument seems to be that ZERO leniency is allowed.
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There are conventional industry tolerances in the ADASAD Dimensions.

Section 104.1 of the 2010 Standards notes that dimensions not stated as a "maximum" or "minimum" are absolute. But Section 104.1.1 of the 2010 Standards provides that all dimensions are subject to conventional industry tolerances except where the requirement is stated as a range with specific minimum and maximum end points.

Construction and manufacturing tolerances apply to absolute dimensions as well as to dimensions expressed as a maximum or minimum. When the requirement states a specified range, such as in section 609.4 where grab bars must be installed between 33 inches and 36 inches above the finished floor, that range provides an adequate tolerance. Advisory 104.1.1 gives further guidance about tolerances.

Section 104.2 of the 2010 Standards provides that where the required number of elements or facilities to be provided is determined by calculations of ratios or percentages and remainders or fractions result, the next greater whole number of such elements or facilities shall be provided. Where the determination of the required size or dimension of an element or facility involves ratios or percentages, rounding down for values less than one-half is permissible.
 
mjesse said:
One of the areas I struggle with is the multi-layered and overlapping Codes-Rules-Laws. Accessibility is addressed in the IBC, A117, ADAAG, and Illinois' own Accessibility Code.
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The IBC in most cases gives the scopining documents for the standards of A117.1

The ADAAG is no longer in effect 2010 ADASAD is the currebt document

You need to check with the state on the application of the state Accessibility Code and when to use it inliu of the IBC/A117.1.

for example the IBC/A117.1 is not used in many states
 
I love the passion that comes through on this forum, even when it goes too far. It's good to be discussing this stuff. Here are a few of my random thoughts. Philosophical ones, if you will...

1) Good cannot exist without evil. This means NO MATTER how great the intention, the idea or the language of a "rule" meant for good, there will ALWAYS be evil trying to take advantage. We cannot and will not ever rid ourselves of it. NOTHING good is free from evil intentions. Not welfare, not National Parks, not ADA, not even freedom. No words or rules can protect them.

2) Nothing will ever be "fair" and no one really "deserves" a damn thing. That kind of thinking leads to disappointment. I'm 6' 4". Years back I slipped a disk in my back when my coworker dropped his end of the beam and fell under it. I took the whole load long enough for him to get out, and my back has never quite been the same. For many months after, it was hard for me to bend over even the slightest...PAIN. Now lets talk about those bathroom mirrors that aren't low enough. Well...turns out that when you're tall and you use an ADA restroom, and an average size mirror is used, you have to bend over to see yourself in it. Now it's not TALL enough to be "fair" to someone like me that surely "deserves" it. Oh well. Nothing will ever be fair.

3) Lawyers suck overall. The idea of lawyers is good, but then comes those looking to take advantage...

4) I wonder if there's a PETA forum with a discussion about making everything fair for all the animals that deserve it going on right now? :)
 
Yeah, you will never find a shortage of opinions on this forum........that's why you are a good fit Glenn!
 
Short, tall; fat, thin; variety is the spice of life and yet physical limitations can be a royal pain.

We who contribute see the world in ways often unseen (or imagined) by others.

Keep seeing and commenting.
 
I love when people say things like "When I,……I did this…." or "I would never……" or "That's not what I did when I was in that situation", etc. I too do the same thing.

Just remember that the world is a diverse place AND….

Not everyone is you, thinks like you, acts like you, has the mentality or discipline like you, strength like you, personality like you, etc etc etc. You nor I are the axis of the universe or speak for everyone.
 
But for Diversity, our world would be an awful "dull" place, no?

It identifies each of us as unique individuals.

Even the "Elephant Man" had admirers.

Lady GaGa is an everchanging presonality as are many personalities.
 
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