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A real life example of the need for ADA

mark handler said:
Not telling anyone how to live their life, Time will tell on your attitude change.All I am telling people is to design and enforce the codes and standards in their area. I'm not telling anyone how to live their life.

And if you cannot understand that, I'm sorry, and by the way if you don't like my posts, don't read them, maybe I am telling you how to live, ignore my posts do not read them
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And that's fine. You are correct about design and codes. Anything more is philosophical. And the whole "ignore me" thing. IT'S A DISCUSSION!!!! That's the fun part. I don't ignore them because I learn, and being stupid is not a virtue. But part of discussion is dissent. Don't get sand in your [edit] because of that.

Ain't nobody in a fistfight here.

Brent.
 
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mark handler said:
Personal attacks will be responded to in kind
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I'll tell you Mark, I like your participation here. I figure you to be a standup guy. But getting in the mud with Brent just doesn't fit you at all. For one thing, you're not good at that.

It's because you are out of your element. Guys like you are a cut above the majority of us. Your group lives better than us. You live in better houses in nicer neighborhoods with fancier cars parked in four-car garages. You shop in upscale stores and don't balk at a $40.00 steak dinner. You dress better, vacation better and your haircuts cost as much as my shoes.

It's just an all around superior existence....we'll except for one thing....we have better sex.
 
Ok guys, I know it's early but back itdown a notch. things could be getting personal here but don't let it.

Discussion is good. Keep it there.

thanks
 
ICE said:
I'll tell you Mark, I like your participation here. I figure you to be a standup guy. But getting in the mud with Brent just doesn't fit you at all. For one thing, you're not good at that. It's because you are out of your element. Guys like you are a cut above the majority of us. Your group lives better than us. You live in better houses in nicer neighborhoods with fancier cars parked in four-car garages. You shop in upscale stores and don't balk at a $40.00 steak dinner. You dress better, vacation better and your haircuts cost as much as my shoes.

It's just an all around superior existence....we'll except for one thing....we have better sex.
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Two car garage (workshop), Stater brothers market, Most of my clothing are ten years old. Home in a former gang area of town, most neighbors are first generation immigrants....

Don't ASSume
 
mark handler said:
Not telling anyone how to live their life, Time will tell on your attitude change.All I am telling people is to design and enforce the codes and standards in their area. I'm not telling anyone how to live their life.

And if you cannot understand that, I'm sorry, and by the way if you don't like my posts, don't read them, maybe I am telling you how to live, ignore my posts do not read them
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I like your posts, you're obviously a smart guy with a great area of knowledge. Ultimately, I come here to learn.

This place is about Codes and enforcement. What I don't like is, what I and some others feel is, an increasing expansion of the restrictions, rules, and regs.

If compliance is a target, it can seem as though the rule-makers continue to decrease its diameter, making it harder and harder to hit.

I don't believe we the people should accept this furthering of restrictions with no questions asked.

If the compliance target is too small, people will stop from attempting to hit it, causing a furthering of non-compliance.

The above is true whether we are talking about accessibility, energy efficiency, fire sprinkler, et. al.

My heartfelt apologies extend to those who I've offended with my opinions and/or ignorance.
 
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Thank you pyrguy for stepping up the moderation. I will add my 2 cents.

There is no reason for anyone to get personal or suggest or ASSume anything about the other posters. When you do that you are simply projecting away from the issues at hand.

Let us keep this on topic and discuss issues not each other. It is obvious that ADA has been a hot topic for years and has really ramped up in the past 2 years on this site. It certainly is an issue that brings out a lot of emotion in people of all ages. We can all have a little fun but not at the expense of others. That rule applies to everyone including me. I have been moderated on my own forum ya know.
 
ICE said:
I'll tell you Mark, I like your participation here. I figure you to be a standup guy. But getting in the mud with Brent just doesn't fit you at all. For one thing, you're not good at that. It's because you are out of your element. Guys like you are a cut above the majority of us. Your group lives better than us. You live in better houses in nicer neighborhoods with fancier cars parked in four-car garages. You shop in upscale stores and don't balk at a $40.00 steak dinner. You dress better, vacation better and your haircuts cost as much as my shoes.

It's just an all around superior existence....we'll except for one thing....we have better sex.
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But not together.

Alone.

I mean, not alone, but with someone else.

And with girls. Together, sex, girls, not alone, not with ICE.

Just want to be real clear on that.

Brent.
 
jar546 said:
Thank you pyrguy for stepping up the moderation. I will add my 2 cents.There is no reason for anyone to get personal or suggest or ASSume anything about the other posters. When you do that you are simply projecting away from the issues at hand.

Let us keep this on topic and discuss issues not each other. It is obvious that ADA has been a hot topic for years and has really ramped up in the past 2 years on this site. It certainly is an issue that brings out a lot of emotion in people of all ages. We can all have a little fun but not at the expense of others. That rule applies to everyone including me. I have been moderated on my own forum ya know.
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So the topic is the video, right?

Well, when you got all p1ssed off and stuttered and the the only Marine word you could choke up was "morons", and you were all fired up, well that was kinda cute.

Brent
 
MASSDRIVER said:
But not together. Alone.

I mean, not alone, but with someone else.

And with girls. Together, sex, girls, not alone, not with ICE.

Just want to be real clear on that.

Brent.
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You never know what people are going to ASSume do you. For example I ASSumed that Mark would understand that I was kidding and I ASSumed that Jeff would be in the dark. I was half right.
 
Interesting isn't it how the first 3 letters of assume are _ _ _ ? Add dumb to them and what do you get?

Now that we have all had our morning Caffine and continue to agree to disagree, mis-assume or assume as you chose,

Let it be resolved by all that codes and the ADA are not going away in the near future.

Let it be further resolved that acceptance or rejection of application is still up to the determination of the AHJ (whether deemed by some as right or wrong)

Were it not for either, many of us would have another occupation.
 
jar546 said:
Let's get this back on topic and change the mood.
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Only thing that would make that video better, is to cut the music so you could hear the giggles of the toddler. Best sound in the world
 
I am going to offer my opinion here, for what it is worth.

My attitude to the ADA was it was a stupid collection of rules that made no sense. It was not based on experience or common sense.

Then I whacked my ankle with a chainsaw. I used a walker, crutches and at home crawled on the floor. Dee had to drive me around. I could not climb ladders or get on kitchen appliances for 3 months. Some of those ADA rules do make sense.
 
fireguy said:
I am going to offer my opinion here, for what it is worth. My attitude to the ADA was it was a stupid collection of rules that made no sense. It was not based on experience or common sense.

Then I whacked my ankle with a chainsaw. I used a walker, crutches and At home crawled on the floor. Dee had to drive me around. I could not climb ladders or get on kitchen appliances for 3 months. Some of those ADA rules do make sense.
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Not wishing bad luck for anyone but maybe a lot of the people that say the ADA rules are stupid need to have the same experience! Then they could realize why the rules are needed.
 
Um, wow, y'all got all kinds of dander up. Look, (to me) some of the ADA rules (like a boatload of other rules) are just plain stupid. People looking to make lawsuits over ADA rules, ticks me off. That said, some ADA rules are fine. I'm not as old as Conab, but I'll probably get there. My dad, during his last few years, did have an ADA placard and needed it, although when he stepped out of the car you couldn't tell. He'd had a heart attack that killed 1/3 of his heart. He was good for about 5 - 10 steps and then would have a stress on his heart that would make him sit down (he could either find a place to sit down, or end up on the sidewalk). No, what gets my goat is the people who don't care about the handicap parking, are not eligible for handicap parking but park there anyway. I don't care WHAT your excuse is (and at an airport you ALWAYS get the 'I'll miss my flight'), you have no right to park there. If I'd have my way, we'd tow every car without a placard and add a $500 fine to the tow and storage fee. Yeah, I'm not thrilled with the folks who 'borrow' mom's car to go to the drug store, or airport or whatever and use mom's placard to park in the handicap zone when they are perfectly able. Yeah, I don't like that form of cheating but at least the car has the placard. Sheesh, what am I doing in this discussion.
 
Perception is in the eyes and minds of the perceiver.

Sometimes it is emotional and some times it is hoped that it is based on aquired awareness. Awareness based on a "balanced" understanding as to the whys and the how to's.

Unfortunately there are those who continue to see ADA as an "opportunity" (based on the perception of entitlement?) based on certain state laws (CA, FL) granting a "bounty" for identifying "technical" violations of the ADA that may not deny access but for omissions or dimensional errors are viewed as violations nontheless of local codes.
 
ADAguy said:
Perception is in the eyes and minds of the perceiver. (sic)Sometimes it is emotional and some times it is hoped that it is based on aquired (sic) awareness. Awareness based on a "balanced" understanding as to the whys and the how to's.

Unfortunately there are those who continue to see ADA as an "opportunity" (based on the perception of entitlement?) based on certain state laws (CA, FL) granting a "bounty" for identifying "technical" violations of the ADA that may not deny access but for omissions or dimensional errors are viewed as violations nontheless (sic) of local codes.
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ADAguy:

How about reasonable people getting a congressman to rewrite the law, throwing out the right of private enforcement and adopting a "reasonableness standard" enforced by building inspectors allowing discretion?

BTW, I added the (sic)s in there for a reason, to show how nitpicking every little mistake is unreasonable, and makes the nitpicker appear nasty and obnoxious. Nobody ever disliked or discriminated against the handicapped until this law was passed, and I used the word "handicapped" as opposed to "disabled" because political correctness shows indoctrination and gullibility.
 
Thank you all for your "tank you's". As to allowing inspectors to abide by a "reasonableness standard", isn't that what the code attempts to do?

You assume that the majority of inspectors are well aware what provides access, not so much for new, as for exsiting being remodeled.

Awareness may vary subject to knowledge, experience and outside "influential" particpants in the approval process.

Discretionary latitude is a commendable goal but is it attainable?
 
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