Access to Service Panel

[Mule]

Was at a certificate of occupancy this morning. Checking things out I walked into the restroom and a 4X4 foot section of drywall was missing on both sides of the lease spaces. Asked the general contractor why that was left off. He never really gave me an answer. He just stated we'll get that taken care of! ...... Okay!

Walked around a bit more... I couldn't find the service panel so I asked the contractor "where's the service panel?"..... Ohhhhh come this way.... He leads me back to the restroom that was missing the drywall. He ducked under the drywall and said "this way".......... HUH?????????

The only access to the service panel was either through the drywall that was fixing to be installed OR the adjacent lease space. I went through the 4X4 space and of course it had a metal stud right in the middle of it so it made it a little tough getting my 6'5" 260 lb body through the hole! When I got through the hole I walked down a 6 ft hallway about 20 feet in length. To the right is a steel door locked and bolted, I guess from the other side because I couldn't budge it, and straight ahead was an electrical rook with the service panel!!! So the only way to access the panel is to go through the lease space next door and get him to unlock the back door that leads to this hallway where the service panel is located!! HELLO RED TAG!!

The contractor said they have permission to go through his lease space and go through the back door to access the panel! I said.... Okay..what happens if you have an emergency and the guy next door is closed???

They asked would it be okay to put a door in the restroom...... uhhh NO!

 

[codeworks]

why don't they just read the darn code book!

 

[steveray]

Big debate here....like to see how some of the experts here answer this....they are supposed to have access to their disconnects 24/7....230.72 vs 230.92

 

[mark handler]

why don't they just read the darn code book!

To intrusive, it's Texas.....

 

[codeworks]

yeah, well Mark, i recently just moved here, and honestly i'm finding that out !

 

[mark handler]

Safety Codes and restroom privacy are just one more intrusive big-government intrusion......

 

[Mule]

The lease space is going to be an adult day care center. What is even sadder is that a bingo hall is going in adjacent to that (not where the service panel is located though). The bingo hall is opening the adult day care center in conjuction with the bingo hall.

Don't let your disabled Mom or Dad keep you from playing bingo!!!!! Bring them along and we will provide adult day care services for them while you play!!

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

The lease space is going to be an adult day care center. What is even sadder is that a bingo hall is going in adjacent to that (not where the service panel is located though). The bingo hall is opening the adult day care center in conjuction with the bingo hall.

We had a child day care center make a similar request. The building owner/contractor pushed to have the service panel for the existing adjacent occupancy in the new space to avoid the cost of relocating the panel. Needless to say, after lengthy discussions with the CBO, an agreement was reached, letters were written and signed, and the CBO reserved the right to revoke the certificate of occupancy for both spaces...all based on an exception in the NEC 24/7 access.

 

[north star]

*

steveray stated:

"Big debate here....like to see how some of the experts here answer this....they aresupposed to have access to their disconnects 24/7....230.72 vs 230.92"

From the `08 NEC, Article 230.72©, Exception: "In a multiple-occupancybuilding where electric service and electrical maintenance are provided

by the building management and where these are under continuous building

management supervision, the service disconnecting means supplying more

than one occupancy shall be permitted to be accessible to authorized

management personnel only."

Article 230.92 - Locked Service Overcurrent Devices.

Who is "they" that you are referring to? ...each tenant or the building

management?



*

 

[Mule]

Building management is in another city over 300 miles away. Wonder how that would effect things?

 

[north star]

= & =

Article 230.72 is referring to an actual "onsite", continuously

managed live person me thinks, and not some corporate

entity XXX miles away.

= & =

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

= & =Article 230.72 is referring to an actual "onsite", continuously

managed live person me thinks, and not some corporate

entity XXX miles away.

= & =

Would a 24/7 contract with a local service company constitute a continuous "on-site" supervisided managment option?

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

From the `08 NEC, Article 230.72©, Exception: "In a multiple-occupancybuilding where electric service and electrical maintenance are provided by the building management and where these are under continuous building

management supervision, the service disconnecting means supplying more

than one occupancy shall be permitted to be accessible to authorized

management personnel only."

Yes, that is the exception we used.

 

[steveray]

Those two code sections seem to conflict...(to me)....we have taken 230.72 to mean "on site" like 24/7 security at our malls, or a resident super at a housing facility, or continuously staffed maintenence dept....I understand the need to be able to shut off your power in an emergency,

but if something happens to trip a main, turning it back on usually is a bigger project than just getting to it.....

 

[north star]

& & &

Papio asked:

"Would a 24/7 contract with a local service company constitute a continuous "on-site"supervisided managment option?"

IMO, I would consider Article 230.72 to actually mean on the site 24/7,by a live person, however, each AHJ would be the ones to make the actual

determination of the interpretation of this article.....I agree with steveray,

"if" it were me, I would want someone on the site.......I am also a realist in that,

a tenant may get promised something on the front end of signing a lease and in

actuality, may not have the 24/7 access that they thought.



& & &

 

[karmann33]

I'm with steveray on this one. Since when did management or management supervision become a licensed electrician and become qualified staff to even open a panel cover to disrupt power when ther's a problem? The codes are getting more muttled up each year. What price do you put on a life when someone dies because the night watchman, security or building management can't get to the disconnect quick enough? I don't want to be the one to find out.

 

[Mule]

The management company called. They are going to cut a door from the exterior into the room and label it "Electrical Room". Okay by me!!

 

[Frank]

Would a 24/7 contract with a local service company constitute a continuous "on-site" supervisided managment option?

Not unless they kept people on site. On site means in the complex.

 

[Msradell]

The management company called. They are going to cut a door from the exterior into the room and label it "Electrical Room". Okay by me!!

I'm assuming all the tenets will have access to this room?

 

[mark handler]

I'm assuming all the tenets will have access to this room?

They are going to cut a door from the exterior,

that would be a yes.

 

[Yankee]

Why can't they have a door from the bathroom into the electrical room?

 

[Yankee]

double post woops

 

[mark handler]

Why can't they have a door from the bathroom into the electrical room?

If you read the OP you will know the Electrical panel (room) is notadjacent to the restroom

 

[imhotep]

If you read the OP you will know the Electrical panel (room) is notadjacent to the restroom

The OP said that the electrical room was at the end of a hallway accessible either trough the adjacent tenant space or through the 4 x 4 hole in the wall in the bathroom. I believe it is a valid question.