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Access to toilet rooms

D

daves

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Cleveland, OH
Mercantile occupancy, toilet rooms for the public are required.

2009 IBC, 2902.3.1 includes the statement "The public shall have access to the required toilet facilities at all times that the building is occupied."

Owner wants to install an electric strike on the door, so a patron has to request to use the toilet, and an employee can buzz them through.

Never mind human dignity and what have you, I think that's a blatant violation of the provisions for access.

Thoughts and opinions?
 
Quite honestly, it's exactly what I'd want to do if I owned a mercantile establishment, and in my opinion, it complies.
 
I agree with txbo.......they have access, it is just not instant...... not a violation IMHO.
 
I'm a little surprised.

Ever been in a store with your kids? When they remember they have to go, it's time to go now. Immediate access is of utmost important.

Or know anyone with internal issues like IBD, Crohns, Colitis. Again, when it's time to go, it needs to be now.

I was thinking the requirement for access meant you didn't have to request access, and maybe help avoid a potentially embarrassing issue.
 
Understand, but not part of the code. Ever seen the damage a teenager can do to a toilet room?
 
Mt state ammendment applies to business and merchantile uses only

l. Keyed toilets under employee control of the type available at service stations are permitted.

 
When my kids were little, many stores would not allow you to even use their restrooms. We chose shopped at stores that did and walked out of stores that did not. Daves comments are reflective that someone will view the inconveince or embarassment as a civil rights issue.
 
* * * *

daves,

FWIW, I too agree with the other esteemed forum members!....Instant access is not a

code requirement.....This can be viewed as a 2 way street.....The business owner

does not have to provide instant access to their restroom, but the customer can also

choose to shop elsewhere, or try as much as they can, to plan for the unexpected

"having to go right now".....Yes, it is inconvenient, but it is not a code violation.

Hope this helps!

* * * *
 
"but I may never stop in again."

Maybe, maybe not. There is a local farm/ranch/hardware store here, one of a kind place. If you need something there, you need it. They have had the RR's locked up since I can remember. They stink, but if ya gotta go, ya gotta go.
 
I would let it pass. Not any different than having to get the key to use the bathroom.

Sue, who probably wouldn't stop in again either
 
daves said:
I'm a little surprised.Ever been in a store with your kids? When they remember they have to go, it's time to go now. Immediate access is of utmost important.

Or know anyone with internal issues like IBD, Crohns, Colitis. Again, when it's time to go, it needs to be now.

I was thinking the requirement for access meant you didn't have to request access, and maybe help avoid a potentially embarrassing issue.
Click to expand...
A "what about the children" post?

Usually we save those for residential fire sprinklers.
 
Mercantile occupancy, toilet rooms for the public are required.
Click to expand...
False premise.

Occupancy has nothing to do with it. What the code says is "Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization."

So only if a structure or tenant space is intended for public utilization is a public toilet required. If a building owner intends their structure or tenant space to be utilized only by paying customers, clients, invited visitors, etc, it is by definition not intended for public utilization. The requirement for a public toilet facility is set by the owner, not the code. The government has no authority to dictate who can use a property owner's facility.
 
Dr. J said:
False premise.Occupancy has nothing to do with it. What the code says is "Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization."

So only if a structure or tenant space is intended for public utilization is a public toilet required. If a building owner intends their structure or tenant space to be utilized only by paying customers, clients, invited visitors, etc, it is by definition not intended for public utilization. The requirement for a public toilet facility is set by the owner, not the code. The government has no authority to dictate who can use a property owner's facility.
Click to expand...
I'll be the first to say "NOPE!"

Would you say that since the "public" is not in there you don't need to meet egress either?
 
I have to agree with Yankee. While I agree with Dr J in principle, I don't think that's the intent of the code.
 
The customers are the "public"
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No they aren't, they are customers. The public is any Joe Blow off the street.

Let's be clear in what I am saying. I am saying a building owner has every right to restrict the use of their building to the people they want to (within the bounds of Civil Rights and all that). A sign on the front door "No Public Restrooms - customers only" is perfectly legal.

Many of our clients have security right at the front door. You need a badge to go past. For some, you have to pass a background check to get the badge. Are you all saying that’s illegal? These security conscious building owners have the same right to refuse entrance to their building as does any other building owner, and the code makes no difference whether they are selling guided missile systems or hamburgers.
 
Agree with Dr J.

A customer (also known as a client, buyer, or purchaser) is usually used to refer to a current or potential buyer or user of the products of an individual or organization, called the supplier, seller, or vendor. This is typically through purchasing or renting goods or services. However, in certain contexts, the term customer also includes by extension any entity that uses or experiences the services of another. A customer may also be a viewer of the product or service that is being sold despite deciding not to buy them. The general distinction between a customer and a client is that a customer purchases products whereas a client purchases services.

The point being the restrooms do not have to be available to anyone who walks off the street to use them. The business owner has the right to determine if the person asking is indeed a customer of his/her establishment.
 
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