And So It Begins

[tmurray]

The professional societies probably can't help. There is no requirement for an architect to belong to the American Institute of Architects, and certainly the unlicensed frauds who like to call themselves "architects" even though they aren't can't join the AIA, and wouldn't magically start doing things right even if they could join.

It's different in Canada. An architect must be a member of the Architect's Association of New Brunswick (for example) in order to practice (same for engineers, geoscientists, and interior designers).

 

[tmurray]

I'm not going to defend the way some RDP act, but in my area this is the norm. In our case, we need to compete with the professionals who will be cheap just to get a job, or those who offshore their work to some drafting farm out of south-east Asia for cheap.

I like to think our firm does a pretty good job with the projects we work on, but we lose a ton of projects because our fees are realistic. There have been more than a few times the firm I'm currently at has almost gone out of business due to lack of work, losing relatively huge projects due to some other architect spitting out a much lower number than what's even feasible. Our costs, btw, are often less then what the client ends up spending on an architect that low-balls the client and then blames the city for everything. A few years ago we lost a medium-size TI project because the tenant thought our fees were "laughable". About a year later, we heard that the tenant abandoned the project after spending considerably more than what our proposal was because the architect "didn't know the city's requirements" (the city has no special requirements - typical TI plans would have been sufficient).

At some point, to survive, you need to lower yourself to their level, at least a little bit. Quality will only get you so far when money is involved, especially when a client doesn't know much about the field. Again, not defending how some RDPs act. Just explaining my perspective on the matter.

I completely agree. This is why I think it is the role of the professional association here. An architect is required by law to be a member if they want to practice. They have the ability to discipline their members. Either what the poorer performing RPDs is acceptable and everyone can do it (in which case building departments need way more staff), or it's not acceptable and the RDP needs to pull their socks up.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Obviously, Canada is different. In the U.S., each state has an architectural licensing board (or agency), and I assume there's a comparable board in each state for professional engineers. (I know my state has a separate board for licensing PEs.) In this state, land surveyors are licensed by the same board that handles PEs, and landscape architects have their own board. Interior designers in this state are not licensed, they are registered. The distinction is that anyone can practice interior design, but only individuals who are registered can use the term "interior designer."

In the U.S. membership in the professional societies is voluntary, not mandatory, and the professional societies have to role in licensure.

 

[jar546]

I guess every state is different,

Florida is a bit of a hybrid. https://fbpe.org/about/about-fbpe/

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Florida has a board for licensing architects and interior designers. It operates under the umbrella of the Department of Business and Professional Regulation. I don't see anything "hybrid" about it -- it's a totally separate entity from the American Institute of Architects, which is the U.S. professional society for architects.

Architecture and Interior Design – Board Information – MyFloridaLicense.com

www2.myfloridalicense.com

Similarly, the Florida Board of Professional Engineers is an entity created by the State, comprised of members appointed by the governor. It's completely separate from any of the several professional societies for engineers (NSPE, CASE, etc). It's not like a professional society, which any member of the profession can join if they pay the membership fee.

 

[jar546]

Similarly, the Florida Board of Professional Engineers is an entity created by the State, comprised of members appointed by the governor. It's completely separate from any of the several professional societies for engineers (NSPE, CASE, etc). It's not like a professional society, which any member of the profession can join if they pay the membership fee.

Hybrid is because the entity that runs the board and membership, Florida Engineers Management Corporation, is not a government entity and they are under contract with DBPR, hency why the FBPE does not have a .gov or .us or .fl website. Hybrid.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Hybrid is because the entity that runs the board and membership, Florida Engineers Management Corporation, is not a government entity and they are under contract with DBPR, hency why the FBPE does not have a .gov or .us or .fl website. Hybrid.

Interesting. So it's a quasi-government body, unlike the architects board, which is under a government agency. I wonder why Florida chose to handle two closely-related professions so differently.

That said -- it's still not any of the engineers professional societies.

 

[jar546]

Interesting. So it's a quasi-government body, unlike the architects board, which is under a government agency. I wonder why Florida chose to handle two closely-related professions so differently.

That said -- it's still not any of the engineers professional societies.

Yeah, Florida is a bit different with everything. Even the guy in the FDOT truck that stops is not an FDOT employee and works for a for-profit company under contract with FDOT. They are slowly privatizing everything.

 

[arwat23]

AND a firm who would xray and certify each joint..

Gotta be honest, that's a first for me. I'm not involved in anything structural usually (other than typical structural framing of walls - nothing special), but I don't think I've ever heard of our engineers being required to x-ray something. Maybe the special inspectors on certain projects, sure, but the engineer designing the thing? Maybe I'm just ignorant of how common that is?

 

[Inspector Gadget]

Your employer should get no say as to whether you report a professional or not. You know the gravity of the violation. They don't. They can clutch their pearls all they want. If they don't get reported, they will never get better.

I think some are slowly realizing they don't get to tell me what to do all the time. Slowly. Unfortunately, things can grow political very quickly.

Gotta be honest, that's a first for me. I'm not involved in anything structural usually (other than typical structural framing of walls - nothing special), but I don't think I've ever heard of our engineers being required to x-ray something. Maybe the special inspectors on certain projects, sure, but the engineer designing the thing? Maybe I'm just ignorant of how common that is?

I've heard of this. I took a welding course when I was unemployed, and the instructor said he'd seen people fired for bad welds revealed by x-rays. Oil industry, IIRC.

I have a nuclear reactor in my jurisdiction. I'm pretty dang sure that's a site where welds were not only x-rayed but probably twice with third-party evaluations of the people who evaluated the x-rays.

 

[socaldano]

Gotta be honest, that's a first for me. I'm not involved in anything structural usually (other than typical structural framing of walls - nothing special), but I don't think I've ever heard of our engineers being required to x-ray something. Maybe the special inspectors on certain projects, sure, but the engineer designing the thing? Maybe I'm just ignorant of how common that is?

No, this is a small city of 24,000 who's community development department has raised the ire of almost all the citizens who buy homes to move into. Those that have lived here since before it was a city (1987) basically do everything off book without a permit, because community development has negative relationship with the community. The surrounding two city's community development department have excellent relationships with the owners. One of the mayors of the other two cities proudly proclaims that she has only heard one complaint about the department, and we both know the guy and his complaint is unreasonable.
There is two lots in this city, one I own and one I would love to buy to build my forever dream home on. If either lot were in either neighboring city, the house would be built and I would be living there. BUT due to the completely unreasonable building department, I cannot successfully build on those properties. I thought about hiring a civil professional engineer to inspect every step, and hire an attorney to get a circuit court judge to point out that P.E.'s always are god when it comes to structures. That having a P.E. sign off on it negates the city's concerns about it being healthy and safe. While pointing out any city inspector of building codes not working under the supervision of a P.E. is committing a misdemeanor every day he goes to work "impersonating a professional engineer, by presenting himself able to determine a building as "healthy and safe"".

 

[steveray]

P.E.'s always are god when it comes to structures.

Structurally to a limited extent....All code items, not a chance...More like demigods...

 

[jar546]

So I uploaded a wood-framed home to the AI model in a 115mph wind zone, and it failed miserably.

 

[arwat23]

No, this is a small city of 24,000 who's community development department has raised the ire of almost all the citizens who buy homes to move into. Those that have lived here since before it was a city (1987) basically do everything off book without a permit, because community development has negative relationship with the community.

So it's a feedback loop? Citizens doing things without a permit only to get mad when the city slaps them with fines?

One of the mayors of the other two cities proudly proclaims that she has only heard one complaint about the department, and we both know the guy and his complaint is unreasonable.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but the only times I hear about any government body not receiving complaints is when they don't really do what they're suppose to do. Seems like almost every complaint I hear about a building department involves them being "strict". the only complaint I don't excuse is extremely slow turn-around time, but even then that's somewhat rare where I work.

There is two lots in this city, one I own and one I would love to buy to build my forever dream home on. If either lot were in either neighboring city, the house would be built and I would be living there. BUT due to the completely unreasonable building department, I cannot successfully build on those properties.

What "unreasonable" things is the city requiring? Honest question.

and hire an attorney to get a circuit court judge to point out that P.E.'s always are god when it comes to structures.

You'd get laughed out of court if you tried that here. No one is god when it comes to structures. I've met and hired a lot of engineers and not one of them has ever been perfect. They're far better than me though lol.

 

[Joe.B]