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another deck failure

No “smoking gun” in Berkeley balcony design

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2015/06/19/no-smoking-gun-in-berkeley-balcony-design/

deck3-720x540.jpg
 
Mark K said:
The City of Berkeley obviously does not find it a burden to retain the records for the life of the building. Why would this be different for a jurisdiction in southern California?
The city of Berserkley is a drop in our bucket. We would need another department just for retaining records. What valid reason is there to keep correction notices that would make it worth doing? In our case the number of individual records would be in the billions.

I wonder how the newspaper got a copy of the plans. I can't imagine that the city gave them up. But then it is Berkeley. They do save paper and they did share correction notices from a decade ago.
 
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ICE said:
The city of Berserkley is a drop in our bucket. We would need another department just for retaining records. What valid reason is there to keep correction notices that would make it worth doing? In our case the number of individual records would be in the billions.I wonder how the newspaper got a copy of the plans. I can't imagine that the city gave them up. But then it is Berkeley. They do save paper and they did share correction notices from a decade ago.
PER STATE CODE WE SCAN AND RETAIN ALL PLANS

The City of Berkeley released the architectural and structural renderings. They could have scanned then, as other departments do.
 
ICE said:
The city of Berserkley is a drop in our bucket. We would need another department just for retaining records. What valid reason is there to keep correction notices that would make it worth doing? In our case the number of individual records would be in the billions.I wonder how the newspaper got a copy of the plans. I can't imagine that the city gave them up. But then it is Berkeley. They do save paper and they did share correction notices from a decade ago.
Take your dept is not electronic yet?
 
So if no record of corrections kept than, there was never a problem found during construction?
 
CA HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE SECTION 19850

19850. The building department of every city or county shall maintain an official copy, which may be on microfilm or other type of photographic copy, of the plans of every building, during the life of the building, for which the department issued a building permit......

We do keep all correction sheets as a part of Public Record

Plan check and feild corrections
 
cda said:
Take your dept is not electronic yet?
We are in the process of allowing electronic plans. Contract workers have been scanning permit records for several years.
 
cda said:
So if no record of corrections kept than, there was never a problem found during construction?
Why would you want a record of problems found during construction? I just don't understand what purpose is served by access to ancient correction notices.

I know inspectors that never write corrections. I write lots of corrections. There are plenty of inspectors that fall between none and tons. So if judgments are to be gleaned from correction notices, every contractor that came my way was terrible and all that went before the inspector that doesn't write correction were great.

Correction notices are mostly worthless information.
 
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mark handler said:
Part of public record, not up to you what is worthless information.Talk with the AHJ Attorney
It's not my policy. It is the longstanding policy of the AHJ.
 
ICE said:
Why would you want a record of problems found during construction? I just don't understand what purpose is served by access to ancient correction notices.I know inspectors that never write corrections. I write lots of corrections. There are plenty of inspectors that fall between none and tons. So if judgments are to be gleaned from correction notices, every contractor that came my way was terrible and all that went before the inspector that doesn't write correction were great.

Correction notices are mostly worthless information.
they have saved my a s a few times during and after a building has been constructed

so when do you get rid of corrections notices, as soon as something has been fixed????
 
cda said:
they have saved my a s a few times during and after a building has been constructed so when do you get rid of corrections notices, as soon as something has been fixed????
I dispose of correction notices after the job has passed final inspection. So far I haven't needed a correction notice after the job is completed.

I know an inspector that thinks like you guys. He has a computer spread sheet that has every address that he has ever been to. There is a time and date with notes on what happened. He writes few corrections and spends more time in the office than in the field. It comes in handy when a contractor calls up wanting to know when was the last time he had an inspection. When that happens, he's all over it and me, well all I can do is say I'm as clueless as you are. The truth is that I can look at the file and get within a few days of when I was there last...and sometimes I do that. But when I'm busy and I get the "when were you there and what happened" questions I wonder why this contractor doesn't know what's up with his job. When I hear, "We're there corrections" I really start to wonder if this is the actual contractor....out loud too.

Do you guys save inspection request slips too? And how about HERS reports?
 
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Correction notices are correspondence between a government representative and the public.

Who do you think you are Hillary Clinton?

You don’t destroy correspondence between a government representative and the public
 
What about email? Should we be recording conversations? And Mark, it's not me doing it on my own....it is the policy of the AHJ.
 
*Federal Rules of Civil Procedures were passed in December of 2006, all emails, communications, files, directives and requests that may be relevant to a current or future litigation cannot simply be deleted or overwritten. The data must be produced and thus it must be archived, because that's the law.i am not an attorney, nor do I play one on tv. As you know, emails that are a part of your job, should be retained. This is for your protection as much as anything else. It eliminates the he said she said.
 
ICE said:
What about email? Should we be recording conversations? And Mark, it's not me doing it on my own....it is the policy of the AHJ.
Yes emails are subject to open records
 
ICE said:
What about email? Should we be recording conversations? And Mark, it's not me doing it on my own....it is the policy of the AHJ.
.............
 
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Back on topic

Berkeley balcony collapse: Owners of building told of dry rot problems 20 months before tragedy

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/berkeley-balcony-collapse-owners-building-5925618

City inspections found evidence of problems in an apartment below where the celebration took place in September 2013, official city records from Berkeley in California, USA, have revealed

The owners of the building where six students plunged to their deaths after a balcony collapsed during a 21st birthday party were warned of dry rot problems 20 months earlier, it has emerged.

City inspections found evidence of problems in an apartment below where the the celebration took place, official city records from Berkeley in California, USA, have revealed.

A councillor from the US city where 13 people fell from the balcony at the Library Gardens apartment block this month has also claimed he has received several complaints about the condition of the building, the Irish Mirror reports .

Six people, including five Irish students, died in the tragedy, with others seriously injured.

Checks were carried out in September 2013 when officials spotted a number of signs of suspected dry rot.

A follow-up inspection two months later found the problems had been addressed and that a certificate of compliance had been issued to the building owners

Reports, obtained by RTE’s This Week programme, showed how letters were sent to the owners where housing officials noted the following red-flags: “floor surface or carpet is damaged creating a trip hazard or floor deck is dry rotted”.

But the documents don’t state whether or not the possible existence of dry rot had led to a thorough structural examination of the building.

City Council member Jesse Arreguin told the RTE programme that a number of tenants in the Library Gardens had approached him with concerns since 2010.

He said: “I received more issues, more complaints about this property than any other newer building in the downtown, even older buildings, property that was built over 50 years ago.

“The number of issues I’ve heard about this building, the condition of it, things breaking, the slow response of management to address these issues I would say was unique compared to other newer buildings.”

It has also emerged €5.5million has been paid out over defective balconies by the construction firm behind the Berkeley apartment block.

Segue Construction agreed to the vast sum after settling two separate law suits in the San Francisco bay area in the past two years.

It is the same firm that built the Library Gardens complex where six Irish students died.

Last year they paid out just under €3million to homeowners in the plush Pines at North Park Apartments in San Jose.

This was due to “water penetration” problems on dozens of balconies on the complex.

The lawsuit accused Segue of “failing to design the breezeways, private balconies and stairwells at the project in substantial compliance with all applicable local and state codes”.

In 2013, they paid out more than €2.5million to the owners of apartments in Millbrae, just west of the San Francisco bay area.

This case was brought because the balconies were deemed unsafe due to water damaging the structural integrity of the supporting beams.

Solicitor Thomas Miller, who represented the owners of the Millbrae premises, said the damage in those apartments was the same as what is being alleged in Library Gardens.

He added: “It was the exact same mechanism of failure as appears in Library Gardens.

"The waterproofing system failed. Water got into the structural wood framing for the balconies and dry-rotted out the wood members.”

Investigations into the cause of the balcony collapse from the fifth storey of the Library Gardens complex in Berkeley are continuing. Another balcony at the apartment complex has since been deemed “structurally unsafe” and a “collapse hazard”.

The owners have been ordered to demolish it. Two other balconies were sealed off or “red-tagged” as tests continue. Segue, which built the complex, said it will co-operate fully with any inquiry.

A spokesman said: “Our hearts go out to the families and loved ones of the young people who died or were injured in this tragic accident. We have offered our assistance and full co-operation to investigating authorities.”
 
"Too many corrections"?.....
It is a judgement call that I leave for the inspector to determine

A homeowner we will spend as much time as needed to educate and explain why something needs to be corrected

A contractor with a stamped and sealed drawings who should know what he is doing! After a certain number of corrections an inspector is creating a punch list for a lazy superintendent and we do not do that.
 
O

mtlogcabin said:
It is a judgement call that I leave for the inspector to determineA homeowner we will spend as much time as needed to educate and explain why something needs to be corrected

A contractor with a stamped and sealed drawings who should know what he is doing! After a certain number of corrections an inspector is creating a punch list for a lazy superintendent and we do not do that.
""""""A contractor with a stamped and sealed drawings who should know what he is doing! After a certain number of corrections an inspector is creating a punch list for a lazy superintendent and we do not do that.""""

So do you let them guess or just approve it?
 
cda said:
So do you let them guess or just approve it?
It can often be explained very simply "See these approved plans? Make it like that."

Or, "Have you ever seen a Code book? You'll find your answers in there."

But sometimes the point is "Maybe construction is just not your thing."
 
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So do you let them guess or just approve it?
We tell them they are not ready for an inspection. Call us back when the work is complete.

When you find multiple fasteners missing, or incomplete installations of windows, mechanical equipment, piping lacking support and any number of multiple issues it is a simple matter that they where not ready for an inspection.
 
It is a judgement call that I leave for the inspector to determine
What do you consider to be a reasonable number of corrections before the inspection stops?

Many times I have been accused of picking on a contractor because of the large number of corrections. It is usually over twenty. The office managers and their supervisors have told me that I should stop at twelve. They say that getting past twelve makes it look like I am piling on. The preferred course of action is to give them the "not ready" correction and then hammer them again at the next inspection. Now that really riles them up. They don't know what's coming because, .....well they just don't know.

I have done that a few times. You know that I take pictures. I can write twelve during the inspection and get another ten from the pictures. So I show up at the next inspection with the correction list already made out. Now they are wondering why I didn't give them the list at the first inspection. I tell them that I am following procedure and when you hit twelve I'm done. So here's ten, let's find another two so I can get to the next inspection. And while I'm here I need to take some pictures.

My procedure is no mater who it is I write corrections until I run out of corrections to write.

As far as explaining all of it....I do have a limit. People with a bad attitude might be on their own.
 
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