Article 210.63 - 2008 NEC

[globe trekker]

Does this Article require a separate GFCI rated circuit for the roof mounted HACR

equipment, or just that the electrical outlet not be connected to the load side

of the equipment.

QUESTION: If the Article does not require a separate (i.e.- meaning a separate

circuit from the equipment circuit) rated circuit for the servicing & maintenance,

what happens if the circuit for the equipment goes down or is otherwise

out-of-service. The electrical receptacle for servicing & maintenance of

the roof mounted equipment also is out-of-service.

Ya'lls thoughts!

 

[Gregg Harris]

It does not require a separate circuit, but I prefer to run one.

As for your example the problem would stem from upstream of the line side of the disconnect. Turn disconnect off and proceed downstairs to the main panel and start there to determine why there is no power to the disconect.

 

[480sparky]

Typically, the unit being served by this receptacle is 208 or 240 volts. The requirement is for a 125v receptacle.

 

[Dennis]

When you say separate circuit it is confusing as we may not know if you mean a dedicated circuit. If you are asking if the receptacle that is required in 210 can be connected to the a/c circuit if there is a neutral pull with the a/c circuit, then my answer is maybe but not usually. If you mean a circuit other then the a/c unit then, again I would say it is usually the case. The gfci does not need to be a dedicated circuit back to the panel.

Art. 210.23(A)(2) will usually stop one from connecting a gfci recep. to the a/c unit circuit.

 

[Dennis]

The new rule about readily accessible for the gfci had some inspectors saying that since you need a ladder to get to the roof then the roof top gfci could not be on the roof but had to be somewhere accessible.

Now, I don't know what they were thinking because when you need the gfci you are on the roof and it is readily accessible. Sometimes we over think things.

 

[globe trekker]

Thanks to you all for your input!

Maybe I should have asked the question differently.

I have a new HACR / HVAC unit being installed on top of an

existing restaurant. They currently do not have a receptacle

anywhere on the roof (RE: Article 210.63).

Since they are installing a new unit, I have requested that

they also install a compliant receptacle per Article 210.63.

What is the code compliant manner in which to accomplish this?

If power is off to this one rooftop unit (i.e. - the circuit is not

active), how can servicing & maintenance be performed

according to Article 210.63?

Please list any applicable Articles. Again, we are using the

2008 NEC.

Thanks!

 

[chris kennedy]

The new rule about readily accessible for the gfci had some inspectors saying that since you need a ladder to get to the roof then the roof top gfci could not be on the roof but had to be somewhere accessible.

You must be kidding.

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration Equipment Outlet.A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment disconnecting means.

And there is nothing there saying 'dedicated circuit'.

 

[Dennis]

You must be kidding.And there is nothing there saying 'dedicated circuit'.

I agree- never said it needed a dedicated circuit-- I was asking if the op was asking that question. Any general circuit will work. As far as the NEC requiring one to install a receptacle when replacing an existing unit then I would say it does not give us guidance. I agree one should be there but I don't see an article requiring it.

 

[steveray]

Most of the new HVAC units (rooftops) I have seen lately, come with a receptacle built in.....then the fight is just wether or not it needs or has an in use cover......

 

[globe trekker]

Most of the new HVAC units (rooftops) I have seen lately, come with areceptacle built in. then the fight is just wether or not it needs or has an in use

cover.......

If the circuit is not energized to the rooftop unit, with the electrical receptacle inside of it,how can servicing & maintenance be performed? Also, if the receptacle is located

inside the equipment itself, wouldn't this nullify the requirements of Article 210.63

(i.e. - "The receptacle shall not be connected to the load side... ")?

Ya'lls thoughts...

 

[Dennis]

If the circuit is not energized to the rooftop unit, with the electrical receptacle inside of it,how can servicing & maintenance be performed? Also, if the receptacle is located

inside the equipment itself, wouldn't this nullify the requirements of Article 210.63

(i.e. - "The receptacle shall not be connected to the load side... ")?

Ya'lls thoughts...

I don't believe the a/c unit needs to satisfy the NEC requirements since this is part of the listed product. I believe the receptacle is connected thru a transformer to give the 120V needed, not sure if they use the tap rule or whether or not there is fuse protection. Either Chris will know this better than I.

 

[Dennis]

Some residential a/c are on the roof and I have never seen a residential unit with a recep. It would be nice not to have to worry about it.

 

[globe trekker]

Thanks Dennis for the insights!

If I may once again, draw upon your (and others) experience, if the circuit feeding the new

rooftop unit is not active, including the receptacle (that may be) inside the unit, how will

serving & maintenance be performed? Would a completely new circuit be required to

be installed, just to provide the Servicing & Maintenance capabilities of Article 210.63?

In my particular application, there are no other receptacles on the roof, which seems

to be typical around here.

Thanks!

 

[codeworks]

a circuit other than that for the hvac unit should power the gfci receptacle on the roof for the equipment. that way if you need to work on the unit and there's a power issues at the unit, the circuit still works to power the gfci. it does not need to be a "dedicated circuit" however, as stated before, i usually run one. some inspectors over think things because they have no trade experience, some underthink things because they have no trade experience. i've got lot's of trade experience (30 years) now working as an inspector, a long way from knowing it all , learning every day. any gfci in an outdoor location installed for personnel protection shall have an in use cover.

 

[Dennis]

Thanks Dennis for the insights!If I may once again, draw upon your (and others) experience, if the circuit feeding the new

rooftop unit is not active, including the receptacle (that may be) inside the unit, how will

serving & maintenance be performed? Would a completely new circuit be required to

be installed, just to provide the Servicing & Maintenance capabilities of Article 210.63?

In my particular application, there are no other receptacles on the roof, which seems

to be typical around here.

Thanks!

Many contractors have long cords that will get them power from down below or they may have a small generator to get them the power they need. In many cases the repairs are done with cordless tools but there are times power is needed.

If the unit is not active it would appear there could be an issue with getting power. I don't particularly like the setup of the gfci installed in the unit so I guess that is an issue for the local AHJ to decide whether or not that would be acceptable.

Certainly if a new unit is being added then a gfci req. would be mandated but for replacement I don't see the NEC requiring that. Who knows how many residential units get replaced daily without a req. to upgrade for a gfci within 25'. I have never been asked to do that.

I certainly can see the need on a rooftop and perhaps the nec should require the outlet be added in replacement scenarios.

Remember those units were there for many years without a recep. on the rooftop and the servicing got done.

 

[globe trekker]

Thanks again Dennis!

Is installing a new unit replacement or new construction? In my case, the existing

restaurant removed the old unit and set a new one in its place? They DID have a

GFCI receptacle installed on the load side though! The GFCI receptacle was new

construction, but the disconnect for the new unit was not upgraded.

I agree that there has always been servicing & maintenance performed without

any roof top receptacles installed anywhere, but when the NEC specifically calls

for it, ...what is required for code compliance (i.e. - the letter of the code, and

not necessarily the intent).

 

[Dennis]

Is installing a new unit replacement or new construction?

Worded as such, a new unit is when you install a unit that was not there before and a replacement is a new unit that replaces an old one. If the old unit didn't have a gfci then I don't see how we can enforce one being installed. If the new unit has one installed I say great.

If in replacing the old unit they did away with the one that was there on the load side well-- someone has to make a decision. Put it back the way it was and be noncompliant or don't have one at all. Tough call.

In my case, the existing

restaurant removed the old unit and set a new one in its place? They DID have a

GFCI receptacle installed on the load side though! The GFCI receptacle was new

construction, but the disconnect for the new unit was not upgraded.

I agree that there has always been servicing & maintenance performed without

any roof top receptacles installed anywhere, but when the NEC specifically calls

for it, ...what is required for code compliance (i.e. - the letter of the code, and

not necessarily the intent).

 

[Gregg Harris]

Thanks again Dennis!Is installing a new unit replacement or new construction? In my case, the existing

restaurant removed the old unit and set a new one in its place? They DID have a

GFCI receptacle installed on the load side though! The GFCI receptacle was new

construction, but the disconnect for the new unit was not upgraded.

I agree that there has always been servicing & maintenance performed without

any roof top receptacles installed anywhere, but when the NEC specifically calls

for it, ...what is required for code compliance (i.e. - the letter of the code, and

not necessarily the intent).

The GFCI should not have been installed on the load side, only the line side of the disconnect.

 

[globe trekker]

The GFCI should not have been installed on the load side, only the line side of the disconnect.

I agree Gregg! That's what I asked the repair company to do. FWIW, There were no other

receptacles on the roof.

 

[Dennis]

The GFCI should not have been installed on the load side, only the line side of the disconnect.

If they mounted an inline fuse to the receptacle I would rather see that then nothing at all.

How did they get 120V before from a 3 phase a/c? Was a neutral pulled? Was it the proper size? Cannot be smaller then the egc.

 

[globe trekker]

Dennis,

I am not sure about your questions. I went to do an inspection of the new unit

on the roof and the contractor had a GFCI rated receptacle already installed,

separate from the HACR unit itself, but it was on the load side. I did not

see how they wired it all up.

After I asked for the GFCI rated receptacle to be on the line side, they said

that they would call me when it was ready for inspection.

They have not called yet for a reinspection..

 

[Dennis]

I don't know about the particulars in this case but let's say for example that the unit draws 30 amps and has 40 amp fuses or cb protecting the conductors. If they brought a neutral to the disconnect it still would not be compliant to tap the line side. If you did you would have a 40 amp circuit with a 20 amp receptacle. Art. 210 will not allow that and generally you would have #12 wire being protected at the 40 amps.

Two articles come to mind. Art. 210.23(A)(2) and Table 210.21(B)(3)

Normally when you have an a/c unit there is no neutral available to get 120V so one must be pulled with the conductors.

 

[chris kennedy]

RTU's with integral GFCI receptacles have no tranny to power them, you pull a 15 or 20A 120V circuit in with the unit feeder. Units with no GFCI, again I pull that circuit with the feeder and mount my own. I agree 210.63 allows a line side connection, but pulling a neutral, installing in-line fuse, messing with name plate MOP and MCA, forget about it, my personal choice.

 

[Gregg Harris]

Most of the new HVAC units (rooftops) I have seen lately, come with a receptacle built in.....then the fight is just wether or not it needs or has an in use cover......

406.8(B)(2)(b) A receptacle installed in a wet location where the product intended to be plugged into it while in use(e.g. portable tools) shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof when the attachment plug is removed. An in use type cover is permitted but not required.