Bedroom or storage room or bonus room

[Jobsaver]

TJacobs:

How do you apply the definition in your zoning code when perferming a plan review? There are some ambiguities as pointed out above, (are closets rooms?, are powder rooms rooms?, etc.)

There still exists an interpretation issue. How do you handle that in your ahd.

 

[Mark K]

When it says "as determined by the building official" it means as interpreted by the building official. The building official cannot create new requirements because of the need for due process and the need for the requirements to be adopted by the governing body.

When interpreting the building code the building official is given considerable lattitude but he still must not step over the line and impose additional restrictions. There is also the legal principle that when interpreting a regulation that is unclear, the unclearity shall be interpreted in favor of the applicant.

Nothing in what you posted would prevent the determination of the number of sleeping units based on the room labels. Thus it is allowed.

 

[Jobsaver]

There is also the legal principle that when interpreting a regulation that is unclear, the unclearity shall be interpreted in favor of the applicant.QUOTE]The code admin sections of the code elaborate on the powers and duties of the BO sufficiently. I believe "as determined" and "as interpreted" mean the exact same thing reguarding R106.1.1.

What legal principle are you refering to that suggests that any lack of clarity shall be interpreted in favor of the applicant. The code calls for an appeals process by which a board might make the interpretation?

 

[Mark K]

I understand that the principle that uncertainty is interpreted in favor of the applicant is a matter of common law. It is related to the rule that when interpreting a contract where there are two interpretations the party who did not draft the agreement gets to chose the interpretation he favors. The important point is that a judge will apply this legal principle in deciding what is right.

 

[Yankee]

One does not mix zoning terms into the building code and visa versa.

It seems that we have gotten to the point in this discussion that each "side" is not going to be swayed any further toward the other.

 

[mark handler]

It seems that we have gotten to the point in this discussion that each "side" is not going to be swayed any further toward the other.

With some people, no amount of reasoning and/or information is going to change their thinking, even when they are wrong.

 

[brudgers]

There is also the legal principle that when interpreting a regulation that is unclear, the unclearity shall be interpreted in favor of the applicant.QUOTE]The code admin sections of the code elaborate on the powers and duties of the BO sufficiently. I believe "as determined" and "as interpreted" mean the exact same thing reguarding R106.1.1.

What legal principle are you refering to that suggests that any lack of clarity shall be interpreted in favor of the applicant. The code calls for an appeals process by which a board might make the interpretation?

Yes, the applicant can breech "civility" and appeal your decision...and wait 30, 60 or however many days it takes to hold the hearing without a permit.

That's what a bully does.

 

[TimNY]

The only parallel I can draw in NY is that when there is ambiguity in a contract, it is interpreted against the party that drafted the contract. It isn't written anywhere, it is been long established through case law.

If there is case law to establish the same principle when interpreting building code it would vary from state to state. I don't know of any such established principle in NY, although certainly the number of cases regarding building code are minuscule compared to the number of cases regarding contract law. If you dig enough you may find something.

The appeals process is there for a simple reason; one party thinks they're right, another party thinks they're wrong. If the BO never made a mistake, you wouldn't need the process. It seems like you are correct 100% of the time, or you are a bully. I wouldn't give any lawsuit much of a chance based on a BO making a mistake, as long as it can be established he was reasonable.

 

[fatboy]

OK.....my thinking....I wouldn't put up with the "bullying". I am right now, sitting in my office,inf the house I designed and built. The office is in the middle of the house, no possible way to include a EERO, and has no SD. It has a closet, with 5 shelves for office supplies. If, for some reason that was not codified in some fashion, a plan reviewer or inspector would have challenged my office? Damn straight I would have taken it to a BOA, or in our jurisdiction, not getting satifaction there, the City Council. To disallow this room would have changed the entire design of the house.

jobsaver.....I think by now you have figured out that you either need to amend your code to support your position, or abandon that position.

 

[mark handler]

Yes Fatboy, your office, acording to some on this board, would be, by their definition, a bedroom. So would a family room, sun room and a walk in closet.

 

[Jobsaver]

jobsaver.....I think by now you have figured out that you either need to amend your code to support your position, or abandon that position.

Yes. This is my thinking now because of the constructive posts in this thread.

 

[GHRoberts]

Yes. This is my thinking now because of the constructive posts in this thread.

I appreciate that you are considering changing the code.

I think everyone in your area will appreciate clarification of this code issue.

 

[High Desert]

TimNY, if you had a 3 bedroom home, every room in excess of those 3 bedrooms, excluding closets, kitchens, baths and halls, would be a bedroom.

 

[TimNY]

TimNY, if you had a 3 bedroom home, every room in excess of those 3 bedrooms, excluding closets, kitchens, baths and halls, would be a bedroom.

I would tend to agree that you are correct. That's not how I read it, but now that you put it that way..