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Bedroom or storage room or bonus room

rktect 1

rktect 1

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,112
Location
Illinois
Just for fun.

I thought I'd ask what others do when they see either a new finished out basement in an existing house with a room labeled storage. The storage room has a closet, smoke detector, arc fault outlets but either no window or a window that does not meet escape requirements.

Same question when you see bonus rooms on the second floor and they don't want to install correct outlets or smoke detectors. Usually these bonus rooms in this village come with an escape window the correct size.

So do you accept the permit based on the label of the room or deny the permit based on the ASSumed intended use?
 
If the room has a closet it will also need a smoke detector and an egress window.
 
Bootleg said:
If the room has a closet it will also need a smoke detector and an egress window.
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So no closet included in basement "storage room", with arc fault outlets and smoke detector = storage space, no escape window required?
 
rktect 1 said:
So no closet included in basement "storage room", with arc fault outlets and smoke detector = storage space, no escape window required?
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Yes.

rtect 1,

That's the way I do it to be consistent.
 
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I'm just asking for clarification. We are doing it the same way. I suppose we'd rather have the arc fault outlets and smoke detector vs. nothing at all.
 
We stopped defining by closet and started defining by labeled use. Still needs one means of egrees and one EERO, and smoke/CO alarm, arc fault.
 
job saver

So, if I put a closet in my basement to lock up guns, booze, business records, Christmas presents, or other items I don't want the kids to get into, you are going to classify that as a bedroom?????
 
We reveiw and inspect according to labeled use. We also will note the plan and permit that the basement room is not to be used as a bedroom.
 
Labeled use is the designated use we are aware of. I also include a note regarding the labeled use on the CO.

Somebody sleeping on a couch in a room doesn't make it a bedroom.
 
I understand your dilemna,but there is nothing in the code that ties a closet to the definition of a bedroom. My old farmhouse has a closet in the living room and an "emergency escape and rescue opening" (door). That does not make it a bedroom. If the plans are labeled as "office" or "exercise room" or anything else then I accept that. I will note on the permit that the space is not designed or approved as a sleeping area. I think that if I start relabeling rooms that I am veering dangerously close to designing the structure.

Joe
 
This has a similar take to the window permit thread. R310.1 states that "basements [comma] habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable EERO".

It doesn't matter if there is a closet or not, nor if it is labeled for sleeping or not, unless it falls under the exception (equipment, and 200 sq ft). It needs an EERO.
 
IRC says "sleeping rooms", PMC says, "rooms used for sleeping purposes" when referring to bedrooms.

A bedroom also has to be habitable, to wit conditioned. All habitable rooms also have light and ventilation requirements.

Put that whole mess together and it is really up to the discretion of the inspector. I don't believe a sleeping room is defined by the presence of a closet, but rather by the use of the room.

The County did away with the "label game", as people would have a den, a family room, a library, a media room, an office.. everything but bedrooms since more bedrooms == more septic.

My personal feeling would be that if you have a room without a window, it is not a bedroom. I would put it on the CO that it is not to be used for sleeping purposes.

You can't try and avoid every possibility that a homeowner is going to do something not permitted after CO issuance. They may set up a landing strip in the backyard-- are you going to require landing lights? :)
 
Glennman CBO said:
This has a similar take to the window permit thread. R310.1 states that "basements [comma] habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable EERO".It doesn't matter if there is a closet or not, nor if it is labeled for sleeping or not, unless it falls under the exception (equipment, and 200 sq ft). It needs an EERO.
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Yes, every habitable room needs a means of egress and and EERO. The EERO does not have to be a window, and unless it is a sleeping room, does not have to open directly to the outside. I think.
 
Bedroom or not

I would be curious to see other jurisdications policies of "creation of a sleeping room", or definitions of bedroom.

We have this issue coming up all the time. The biggest reason for us, being a rural county, served by septic, the required septic design is based on the number of bedrooms. If you have a 3 bedroom design, you can not build or remodel your house to a condition that would have 4 bedrooms, without upgrading your septic system.

I have seen offices, dens, game rooms, sewing rooms, meditation rooms, bonus rooms, singing rooms, piano rooms, reading rooms, sanctums, etc.... all "not a bedroom".

We generally have our landuse people make the determination if it is a bedroom or not, then if it is, we (building) apply the EEOR and SD requirements. They do allow built in items, such as desks or bookshelves to evidence that something is not a bedroom.

The most recent dilema came from someone building a garage with an attached "reading room". The reading room has a full bathroom. We deemed it a bedroom, denied the design because it had direct access to the garage, and exceeded the septic design for the property.

This issue probably causes more arguments between our building vs. land use staff, as well as applicants.

We have a policy on the creation of a sleeping room, but i would like to see some others to perhaps improve on ours.

Fun Fun Fun.....
 
Yankee said:
Yes, every habitable room needs a means of egress and and EERO. The EERO does not have to be a window, and unless it is a sleeping room, does not have to open directly to the outside. I think.
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In regards to every level except a basement and an attic, every sleeping room needs an EERO, not every habitable room. Welcome to the quagmire! :)

It does bring up a good point.. some of these bonus rooms could meet the definition of 'habitable attic', and therefore required an EERO.

An unpermitted finished basement would have to comply with the code in effect of the time of conversion. So far (around here), that means no EERO required in a basement. Unless there is a sleeping room.
 
righter101 said:
I would be curious to see other jurisdications policies of "creation of a sleeping room", or definitions of bedroom.
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For the purposes of septic here, each home is allotted a kitchen, living room, dining room, foyer and another room such as "den", "study", "library" (whatever they want to call it), all other rooms are bedrooms. An unfinished basement is also exempt.
 
Jobsaver said:
Same as Bootleg. If the room has a closet, we consider it to be a bedroom regardless of the immediate resident's intended use. We initially address this issue at plan review.Add an egress element; remove a closet; etc.
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Code section?
 
If a room is designated as a den, library, bonus room or whatever, that is what it is whether or not it has a closet. I sometimes wonder what that room is called when the house is eventually sold but, that is beyond our purview.

GPE
 
So if they label the garage a kitchen, can they have direct access from their kitchen into a bedroom?
 
rktect 1 said:
So if they label the garage a kitchen, can they have direct access from their kitchen into a bedroom?
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Gas oven or electric oven? :)

In the end you have to be reasonable. I have gone on final inspections where people have beds where they shouldn't be. They fail. Is the only solution to installed an egress window, or can you also remove the bed?

One situation was in the basement where they decided to flip-flop the media room and the bedroom, wherein the bedroom no longer had an EERO. When I went back the room was empty, and they passed.

CO had a note stating no sleeping in that room. Could they have put the bedroom back in there? Maybe. But it was compliant when I left. You can't preempt what a homeowner will do. If you find a person running an auto body shop out of their home, do you make them remove it, or do you make them put a spray booth in?
 
Whatever the room is titled is what the room is. There is no such thing as a closet automatically making a room a sleeping room. If the room has a closet and it is called a "den", then it is a "den" that just happens to have a closet in it.
 
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