Think of structural observation as a waste of time and money...but maybe you will get lucky and there will be a major flaw...however, the odds that an engineer will find it are astronomical.Mark K said:
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Bolting Sill Plate To Existing CMU's
- Thread starter 123pugsy
- Start date
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
How close can this anchor be to the edge of the concrete? Looks like it will be in line with the CMU web and the concrete. May not matter since it is an epoxy anchor, just asking if it should be a concern
I check Hilti site but could not find installation instructions
I check Hilti site but could not find installation instructions
mark handler
SAWHORSE
mark handler
SAWHORSE
So it's a required waste of money and there is no requirement that the engineer find any mistakes.mark handler said:
mark handler
SAWHORSE
I have been onsite where the workers bored the hole and without cleaning it out started to insert the epoxy.ICE said:
They say it doesn't matter. I shake my head and reject the work
Happens all the time
Yes Mark, I am sure that it happens. And then there's the one or two anchor jobs where some deputy grabbed $250. It's little more complicated than brewing coffee and we can't trust anyone to get it right. How about those jobs where they installed 15 anchors with special inspection and missed three.....that we're on the plans....big as day.... And that deputy missed them. Do you give them a pass on hiring numbnuts for the three they missed?
Some days I'm just feeling special. So I deputize myself.
When the engineers squeezed their structural observation into the code, somehow, special inspectors for concrete dowels came along for the gravy train ride. Another waste of money. It's a wonder the rest of construction takes place without special inspectors.
Some days I'm just feeling special. So I deputize myself.
When the engineers squeezed their structural observation into the code, somehow, special inspectors for concrete dowels came along for the gravy train ride. Another waste of money. It's a wonder the rest of construction takes place without special inspectors.
Last edited by a moderator:
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Some think all the HD's, straps, clips and shear walls are a waste of money.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Thanksmark handler said:
It will be real hard to maintain that 1.75 inches unless the rim board overlaps the washer
123pugsy
Bronze Member
Thanks for all the responses.
Of course, being the home owner, I don't want to pay for an inspection if I don't have to.
I will be watching and or participating in the drilling, cleaning and inserting of the epoxy to make sure everything is just right.
If our AHJ asks for special inspection, I'll have no choice but to comply.
Of course, being the home owner, I don't want to pay for an inspection if I don't have to.
I will be watching and or participating in the drilling, cleaning and inserting of the epoxy to make sure everything is just right.
If our AHJ asks for special inspection, I'll have no choice but to comply.
123pugsy
Bronze Member
Scaled pic attached.View attachment 971mtlogcabin said:
View attachment 971
/monthly_2013_12/572953d066613_sillplate.JPG.680ba69bb68ce6a54c74642ef984cc59.JPG
I thought that you had a thing about thread drift.mark handler said:
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
I am concerned 1.75 edge distance is from the edge of the concrete and does not include the masonry block. The drawing shows 2&7/16 from the edge of the masonry unit which is probably 1 to 1.25 inches thick. Anyway it is close. The engineer did not specify the size of the hold down washer. Code requires a 3" X 3" square washer.123pugsy said:
Adhesive anchors are addressed in the 2012 IBC for use in concrete and special inspection is required.
Installation instructions and inspection requirements are produced at the time the adhesive is tested per ACI 355.4. Since these are product specific they need to be obtained from the manufacturer. This information is typically included with an evaluation report. The requirement that adhesive anchors be subject to special inspection is driven by the special inspection requirements in Chapter 17 of the 2012 IBC and not by requirements imposed by the issuer of the evaluation report.
In general adhesive anchors are seen as an engineered item. The edge distance will have a major impact on the ultimate capacity of the anchor.
I find it interesting that some individuals infer that having made a couple of site visits to the project the engineer is expected to be responsible for having inspected all the work even that which has been hidden by other work. Inspections take time and this time must be paid for. Rather than blame the engineer look to the owner who does not want to pay for inspections.
Installation instructions and inspection requirements are produced at the time the adhesive is tested per ACI 355.4. Since these are product specific they need to be obtained from the manufacturer. This information is typically included with an evaluation report. The requirement that adhesive anchors be subject to special inspection is driven by the special inspection requirements in Chapter 17 of the 2012 IBC and not by requirements imposed by the issuer of the evaluation report.
In general adhesive anchors are seen as an engineered item. The edge distance will have a major impact on the ultimate capacity of the anchor.
I find it interesting that some individuals infer that having made a couple of site visits to the project the engineer is expected to be responsible for having inspected all the work even that which has been hidden by other work. Inspections take time and this time must be paid for. Rather than blame the engineer look to the owner who does not want to pay for inspections.
mark handler
SAWHORSE
That's why I posted #30 aboveMark K said:
The workers don't care
jar546
CBO
I too have seen the same, hence the requirement.mark handler said:
That must be in another thread.Mark K said:
Usually at $500 a visit. For that you get a statement that the work "Substantially meets the plans and specifications". What it should say is the that work "Almost meets the plans and specifications". 1% of structural observations result in a correction yet 100% of my inspections result in corrections.
I have too many stories to tell them all. So I'll give you two.
A university dormitory. Wood framed four floors. Footing inspection. Hundreds of anchor bolts and all the wrong size. The plans called for 3/4" and they installed 5/8". I was still sitting in my truck when I told the contractor....right after he handed me a structural observation form that said "Substantially...blah....blah"
Same job different engineer. A first floor wing was framed and the engineer was called out to observe. The studs and plates were 3x. The plans specified 20d common nails. They used sinkers and the engineer gave them their "Substantially...blah....blah".
The damnable part about this is that the owners and contractors always say "What makes you think that you know more than an engineer". Shirley if they don't say it, they think it. I say things like "Well sir, engineers aren't trained about steel laying on dirt"....."Engineers don't carry tape measures" "12 inches looks a lot like 18".
MASSDRIVER
REGISTERED
Wrong. I sometimes think senior building officials don't care. But then I stop lumping entire groups together. Imagine that.mark handler said:
Brent.
tmurray
SAWHORSE
You should always contact the engineer to do an inspection and record that it was requested (a written signed note will do). the engineer doesn't have to show up, you just have to make the request. That way if it fails because something was not done properly the liability is on the engineer.123pugsy said:
The building inspector will verify that the installation appears to be in line with the plans, but realistically, only the person who stamps it can really say if it is right or not.
tmurray
SAWHORSE
Just a note, IRC and ICC are irrelevant here in Canada (where the OP is from). Since he is in Markham he is under the Ontario Building Code (an amended version of the National Building Code of Canada). I just wanted to clarify this so they know it might not be applicable to them.
123pugsy,
Like Lee Corso sez "Not so fast my friend!" one story Bugalow?, to a TWO story on existing foundation. Unless this has already been done and is mute, you need to verify the minimum soil bearing, footing depth, thickness and width if the IRC is in use, see: Table R403.1 or check the Ontario Building Code for the same?
pc1
Like Lee Corso sez "Not so fast my friend!" one story Bugalow?, to a TWO story on existing foundation. Unless this has already been done and is mute, you need to verify the minimum soil bearing, footing depth, thickness and width if the IRC is in use, see: Table R403.1 or check the Ontario Building Code for the same?
pc1
123pugsy
Bronze Member
Thanks.Pcinspector1 said:
Two story with brick veneer also.
18" x 6" footing on 4000 PSF soil confirmed by the soil engineer.
I have the report to submit with my application.
I've checked the OBC 2006 and cannot find a table.
I will check again later.
123pugsy
Bronze Member
I will confirm with the building inspector before I begin.tmurray said:
Thanks.
tmurray
SAWHORSE
The way the prescriptive codes work in Canada, we have a specific minimum bearing pressure we look for in all cases and just adjust the footing size to suite multiple stories. I have never seen a footing that would be too small to support a two storey dwelling. Pretty much every footing we see has a width of 20" which allows up to three storey of light wood frame construction. If you have brick or stone veneer you may have to be concerned, but you should be fine otherwise. You could check with your building inspection department to see if they have an inspection report from when your house was constructed that notes the footing size to make sure. Table 9.15.3.4 in the NBCC.Pcinspector1 said: