Building Official insists waiting area is "A" occupancy

[nitramnaed]

UPC I believe has different ways (OL) for fixture count....I believe the Cali folks taught me that....If the BO's really want to be jerks, the waiting room is really 7 per (chairs not fixed)

UGH!

 

[Tim Mailloux]

I agree with you. Looking for some negotiation room but, we are dealing with a third party reviewer so we're not going to get anywhere with them. We'll have to talk directly with the AHJ. Seeing our firm will be doing numerous installation like this I want to make sure we approach each project correctly. Of course the client won't like the increase in fixtures.

Are you on the IPC or UPC?

also, with calculating the waiting room at 1 per 15, the storage & mechanical spaces at 1 per 300 & the remaing clinic area at 1 per 150 (or 1 per 100 depending on what version of the IBC your on) how many occupants do you come up with for each of the 3 occupant load calculations?

 

[Tim Mailloux]

one more wrinkle to throw in the mix......my firm does a lot of health care design including out patient clinics. Depending on the state, and what type of licensing this clinic is required to have, FGI Healthcare Guidelines might come into play. Depending on the version of FGI, the guidelines can add alot of additional toilet facilities. Often we have to provide dedicated toilets for the waiting area, dedicated toilets for patients inside the treatment area, and dedicated staff toilets. It can get out of hand really fast. Im not saying this will apply to your project, but its something to look into.

 

[JPohling]

In CA minimum fixture requirements are based upon occupant load calculation from the plumbing code and are separate from occupant load for exiting calculations.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

In CA minimum fixture requirements are based upon occupant load calculation from the plumbing code and are separate from occupant load for exiting calculations.

I seemed to have missed where the OP said this project was in CA.

 

[sergoodo]

Make the bathrooms all unisex and add a urinal into the mens AND womens!

 

[JPohling]

I seemed to have missed where the OP said this project was in CA.

I was just saying there are two different occupant loads for exiting and plumbing purposes in CA. No idea where he is but seems like perhaps IBC.

 

[ADAguy]

I agree with you. Looking for some negotiation room but, we are dealing with a third party reviewer so we're not going to get anywhere with them. We'll have to talk directly with the AHJ. Seeing our firm will be doing numerous installation like this I want to make sure we approach each project correctly. Of course the client won't like the increase in fixtures.

will he accept unisex in lieu of separate men's and women's?

 

[steveray]

As far as fixture count, you do not "double count" unisex......Do you?

 

[classicT]

As far as fixture count, you do not "double count" unisex......Do you?

Nope. A toilet and urinal in a single occupant room only count as one.

 

[mtlogcabin]

I count the number of seats in the waiting room and use that in lieu of 15 sq ft pp OL
Remember gross OL does not include the exterior walls

 

[sergoodo]

Nope. A toilet and urinal in a single occupant room only count as one.

That is presumptive in this day & age....

 

[Tim Mailloux]

Nope. A toilet and urinal in a single occupant room only count as one.

That is presumptive in this day & age....

Can two poeple use that toiet room at the same time? If not, then it only counts as one fixture

 

[Tim Mailloux]

I count the number of seats in the waiting room and use that in lieu of 15 sq ft pp OL
Remember gross OL does not include the exterior walls

I am not sure I can get behind that, on many occasions I have seen every seat in the waiting room of my doctors office filled, with people standing / waiting against the walls, with an additional group of people waiting in line to check in. And a lot of those people will be waiting in that room for 45 minutes to an hour.

 

[cda]

I am not sure I can get behind that, on many occasions I have seen every seat in the waiting room of my doctors office filled, with people standing / waiting against the walls, with an additional group of people waiting in line to check in. And a lot of those people will be waiting in that room for 45 minutes to an hour.

will be waiting in that room for 45 minutes

Need to find a different doctor


They do now have "Doc in the Computer, or Smartphone"!!!!

 

[nitramnaed]

Thanks for everyone chiming in on this. I guess there is no definitive answer here as hopefully we can negotiate the fixture counts with the AHJ on a per project basis.

 

[nitramnaed]

Are you on the IPC or UPC?

also, with calculating the waiting room at 1 per 15, the storage & mechanical spaces at 1 per 300 & the remaing clinic area at 1 per 150 (or 1 per 100 depending on what version of the IBC your on) how many occupants do you come up with for each of the 3 occupant load calculations?

IBC. Clinic is 1/100.

 

[nitramnaed]

I seemed to have missed where the OP said this project was in CA.

This project happens to be in Arizona.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

IBC. Clinic is 1/100.

could you ask for a code mod to use the 2018 IBC to calculate the office area occupant loads at 1 person per 150SF

 

[Tim Mailloux]

I am not sure you need to do anything to your plumbing counts assuming you current show (1) make & (1) female toilet room. Looking back thru your posts you have a 3300 SF clinic with a 479 SF waiting area. Based on that info I am coming up with 32 occupants in the waiting area (479 / 15) & 29 occupants in the remainder of the building (2821 / 100) . I then apply the B occupancy plumbing calculations to the 29 occupants and one of the A3 Occupancy plumbing calculations to the 32 waiting room occupants. Even though the waiting room is technical a B occupancy and not an A3 occupancy, the IPC code commentary is very clear that plumbing fixtures can be calculated this way.

If we are all in agreement with this, I then come up with the following calculations

Water Closets
A3 Male water closets 1 per 125 = 0.13 fixtures
B Male water closets = 0.60 fixtures
Total male water closets = 0.73, rounded up to 1.0

A3 Female water closets 1 per 65 = 0.25 fixtures
B Female water closets = 0.60 fixtures
Total Female water closets = 0.85, rounded up to 1.0


Lavatories
A3 Male lavatories 1 per 200 = 0.08 fixtures
B Male lavatories = 0.38 fixtures
Total male lavatories = 0.46, rounded up to 1.0

A3 Female lavatories 1 per 200 = 0.08 fixtures
B Female lavatories = 0.38 fixtures
Total Female lavatories = 0.46, rounded up to 1.0


Drinking Fountains
A3 Drinking Fountains 1 per 500 = 0.06
B Drinking Fountains 1 per 100 = .29
Total Drinking Fountains = 0.35, rounded up to 1……(Must provide a high & low fixture, minimum of 2 DF required)


So based on my math you need to provide one male and one female toilet room, and 2 drinking fountains to meet the HiLo Requirement

 

[nitramnaed]

I am not sure you need to do anything to your plumbing counts assuming you current show (1) make & (1) female toilet room. Looking back thru your posts you have a 3300 SF clinic with a 479 SF waiting area. Based on that info I am coming up with 32 occupants in the waiting area (479 / 15) & 29 occupants in the remainder of the building (2821 / 100) . I then apply the B occupancy plumbing calculations to the 29 occupants and one of the A3 Occupancy plumbing calculations to the 32 waiting room occupants. Even though the waiting room is technical a B occupancy and not an A3 occupancy, the IPC code commentary is very clear that plumbing fixtures can be calculated this way.

If we are all in agreement with this, I then come up with the following calculations

Water Closets
A3 Male water closets 1 per 125 = 0.13 fixtures
B Male water closets = 0.60 fixtures
Total male water closets = 0.73, rounded up to 1.0

A3 Female water closets 1 per 65 = 0.25 fixtures
B Female water closets = 0.60 fixtures
Total Female water closets = 0.85, rounded up to 1.0


Lavatories
A3 Male lavatories 1 per 200 = 0.08 fixtures
B Male lavatories = 0.38 fixtures
Total male lavatories = 0.46, rounded up to 1.0

A3 Female lavatories 1 per 200 = 0.08 fixtures
B Female lavatories = 0.38 fixtures
Total Female lavatories = 0.46, rounded up to 1.0


Drinking Fountains
A3 Drinking Fountains 1 per 500 = 0.06
B Drinking Fountains 1 per 100 = .29
Total Drinking Fountains = 0.35, rounded up to 1……(Must provide a high & low fixture, minimum of 2 DF required)


So based on my math you need to provide one male and one female toilet room, and 2 drinking fountains to meet the HiLo Requirement

Interesting. I'll look this over.

 

[Feanor]

Interesting. I'll look this over.

What happened during plan check? Was it approved with just two toilets?

 

[Feanor]

I am not sure you need to do anything to your plumbing counts assuming you current show (1) make & (1) female toilet room. Looking back thru your posts you have a 3300 SF clinic with a 479 SF waiting area. Based on that info I am coming up with 32 occupants in the waiting area (479 / 15) & 29 occupants in the remainder of the building (2821 / 100) . I then apply the B occupancy plumbing calculations to the 29 occupants and one of the A3 Occupancy plumbing calculations to the 32 waiting room occupants. Even though the waiting room is technical a B occupancy and not an A3 occupancy, the IPC code commentary is very clear that plumbing fixtures can be calculated this way.

If we are all in agreement with this, I then come up with the following calculations

Water Closets
A3 Male water closets 1 per 125 = 0.13 fixtures
B Male water closets = 0.60 fixtures
Total male water closets = 0.73, rounded up to 1.0

A3 Female water closets 1 per 65 = 0.25 fixtures
B Female water closets = 0.60 fixtures
Total Female water closets = 0.85, rounded up to 1.0


Lavatories
A3 Male lavatories 1 per 200 = 0.08 fixtures
B Male lavatories = 0.38 fixtures
Total male lavatories = 0.46, rounded up to 1.0

A3 Female lavatories 1 per 200 = 0.08 fixtures
B Female lavatories = 0.38 fixtures
Total Female lavatories = 0.46, rounded up to 1.0


Drinking Fountains
A3 Drinking Fountains 1 per 500 = 0.06
B Drinking Fountains 1 per 100 = .29
Total Drinking Fountains = 0.35, rounded up to 1……(Must provide a high & low fixture, minimum of 2 DF required)


So based on my math you need to provide one male and one female toilet room, and 2 drinking fountains to meet the HiLo Requirement

Can you direct me to the code exception that allows to break the occupant load calculations?

 

[JPohling]

In this case I'm with the BO, the waiting room should be calculated at 1 person per 15SF

I agree the Occupant load should be calculated at 1/15 unless you have a furniture layout that would show otherwise. But in any case you should not be using Assembly anything for the plumbing calcs. it is all B.