CalGreen EV receptacle wired to apartment panelboard - rant

[ICE]

When the government gets behind a product with rebates and mandates there is the certainty that the public would rather not have it. Eventually the government will back of and the product will lose market share. We are already seeing the collapse of the EV market. People don’t want EVs in numbers sufficient to justify the code requirements.

 

[wwhitney]

We are already seeing the collapse of the EV market.

That's a false narrative based on a single quarter dip in EV sales at the beginning of this year. EV sales have continued to rise since then. See, e.g., https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=63904

Cheers, Wayne

 

[mark handler]

That is always applicable/ retro, whereas Yikes is speaking of new construction requirements...This is what they were trying to get into the base 2024 IECC which got beaten back to an appendix....It started at 100%

RE101.2.1​

New one- and two-family dwellings and townhouses with a designated attached or detached garage or other on-site private parking provided adjacent to the dwelling unitshall be provided with one EV capable, EV ready or EVSE space per dwelling unit. R-2 occupancies or allocated parking for R-2 occupancies in mixed-use buildings shall be provided with an EV capable space, EV ready space or EVSE space for 40 percent of the dwelling unitsor automobile parking spaces, whichever is less.
Exceptions:

1. 1.Where the local electric distribution entity certifies in writing that it is not able to provide 100 percent of the necessary distribution capacity within 2 years after the estimated certificate of occupancy date, the required EV charging infrastructure shall be reduced based on the available existing electric distribution capacity.
2. 2.Where substantiation is approvedthat meeting the requirements of Section RE101.2.5 will alter the local utility infrastructure design requirements on the utility side of the meter so as to increase the utility side cost to the builder or developer by more than $450 per dwelling unit.

The Goal in CA is to run them from solar panels, not the main grid.

 

[mark handler]

Top EVs Sold in the U.S.
RANK EV MAKE & MODEL PERCENT GROWTH YOY
1 Tesla Model Y 32%
2 Tesla Model 3 74%
3 Ford Mustang Mach-E 45%
4 Chevy Bolt EV/EUV 54%

 

[steveray]

Top EVs Sold in the U.S.
RANK EV MAKE & MODEL PERCENT GROWTH YOY
1 Tesla Model Y 32%
2 Tesla Model 3 74%
3 Ford Mustang Mach-E 45%
4 Chevy Bolt EV/EUV 54%

The Mach E makes me want to throw up every time i see one...I have no complaints about the Bolt..

 

[ICE]

That's a false narrative based on a single quarter dip in EV sales at the beginning of this year. EV sales have continued to rise since then. See, e.g., https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=63904

Cheers, Wayne

It depends on whom you trust. Correct me if I'm wrong, lol, but a few of the major manufacturers have stopped making EV because they aren't selling and they lose money on every car sold. As the new administration takes over in Washington, I expect the EV mandates to relax as well as the incentives.

As I said previously, any industry that relies on rebates and forced adoption is not viable long term. There will come a day when people understand the true environmental impact of EVs and they will recoil.

I am not for or against electric vehicles. My in-laws drive Teslas and they like them a lot. The ancillary technology like the autopilot nd 360° cameras are great. The limit on distance, the added weight, the special tires, and the coming road tax in California with the angst of a huge battery in the garage are less than comforting.

But Wayne, I do admit that you found a government produced chart with a rosy outlook for EVs going forward.

 

[wwhitney]

Correct me if I'm wrong, lol, but a few of the major manufacturers have stopped making EV because they aren't selling and they lose money on every car sold.

I believe you're wrong. There was some press back at the beginning of the year about some manufacturers delaying some of their investments due to concern that the future rate of growth in EV sales would not be as high as their previous projections. Planning for a market transition is not easy.

But Wayne, I do admit that you found a government produced chart with a rosy outlook for EVs going forward.

That chart is entirely showing historical data.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Yikes]

The Goal in CA is to run them from solar panels, not the main grid.

Yes, that's the ultimate goal. But one major problem in CA is that people are primarily driving their EVs during the day, then charging at home in the evening - - the exact opposite of what we need to take advantage of available solar power. California is at times paying other states to take our excess solar power because we lack daytime storage capacity. Meanwhile, in absence of that capacity, we've also been shutting down gas and nuclear plants that provide baseline capacity.
This policy/practice marks the first time in history where an economy has limited access to existing forms of energy prior to the proposed replacement being fully available to supersede it.

See https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.co...-paths-on-energy-efficiency.37161/post-294601

 

[ICE]

This policy/practice marks the first time in history where an economy has limited access to existing forms of energy prior to the proposed replacement being fully available to supersede it.

When steamboats came online we didn't immediately sink all of the sailboats.

 

[ICE]

That chart is entirely showing historical data.

Well I'm sorry but I just don't trust the government for anything.

 

[arwat23]

I believe you're wrong. There was some press back at the beginning of the year about some manufacturers delaying some of their investments due to concern that the future rate of growth in EV sales would not be as high as their previous projections. Planning for a market transition is not easy.

And partially because hybrids are cheaper to make, require far less investment, can be sold cheaper (a lot more people can buy a hybrid than a full EV), can have lower "fuel" costs (I don't care what Tesla or Hyundai say, I spend less on gas in my regular hybrid than my co-worker spends on electricity to charge his EV when comparing cost/mile), and hybrids outsell EVs if we count units sold in the US. EVs may have increased sales, but hybrid sales increase faster. Until someone like [insert Chinese EV manufacturer here] or someone else brings a truly affordable (and good) EV to the US, hybrids and ICE vehicles will likely outsell EVs here for a long while. Or at least until 2035 when CA bans all non-PHEV / EV vehicles from being sold in the state...

Hybrid sales are increasing faster than EV sales after all. Makes sense to pivot to that first rather than full EVs, at least for most manufacturers.

 

[Yikes]

When steamboats came online we didn't immediately sink all of the sailboats.

I know this is a little bit of thread drift, but one major problem for us in California is that our state's policies have made it quite clear to the petroleum industry their days are numbered, they are despised, and their wells and refineries and infrastructure will be eventually outlawed and obsolete - - but meanwhile we still need their product, and lots of it.

So it's no wonder that for the petroleum industry, tonight they're gonna party like it's 1999. They will make more money by minimizing ongoing maintenance on refineries, reducing output and jacking up prices than by increasing output and heightening competition. Currently, less than 1% of our crude oil supply comes form sources within the state. Most of it comes from Ecuador, Colombia, and stalwart democracies like Saudi Arabia and Iraq.