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California and Hi/Lo drinking fountain exception?

J

JPohling

SAWHORSE
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
1,685
Location
San Diego
There is an exception in the 2016 CBC for providing a hi/low drinking fountain. 11B-211.2 Exception states: Where a single drinking fountain complies with sections 11B-602.1 through 11B-602.9, it shall be permitted to be substituted for two separate drinking fountains.

So either they are covering their bases with this exception for if and when a device like this comes out..........or there is already one that I am not able to find? Short of having one that is height adjustable by the user to allow the correct spout height for the chair user (36" maximum) and then the 38" minimum height for the standing person I cannot fathom how this is achieved? Anyone see anything like this?

CPC 415.2 Drinking fountain alternatives. has a sentence that states. "Bottle filling stations shall be permitted to be substituted for drinking fountains up to 50% of the requirements for drinking fountains"

We typically try and do a single drinking fountain at accessible height equipped with a bottle filler and are constantly shot down.

What do you guys think?
 
This one also provides the puppy dog with their own fountain :)

images
 
JPohling said:
CPC 415.2 Drinking fountain alternatives. has a sentence that states. "Bottle filling stations shall be permitted to be substituted for drinking fountains up to 50% of the requirements for drinking fountains"

We typically try and do a single drinking fountain at accessible height equipped with a bottle filler and are constantly shot down.
Click to expand...

If only one high/ low is required and then having a bottle filler instead you would be substituting the drinking fountain 100%.
 
Probably not going to happen. Gotta start with the minimum, one hi, one low, then you can move on to the substitutions. Not sure what the CBC says, but the IBC (1109.5) says you gotta start with one hi and one low (no fewer than two drinking fountains shall be provided, or a single hi/low fountain).
 
Drinking fountain of any variety is not required, occupant load less than 30. We could install only a bottle filler and that would be fine. Owner would like to provide a drinking fountain option as well and that is where we are at. looks like no other option so do away with the fountain
 
Bottle fillers are not accessible, require fingers to hold bottle. Check for reach range compliance when used in conjunction with a hi-lo.
 
Once you decide to do a drinking fountain under ADA, you better have one high and one low (whether or not they are in a single device). To make either a person in a wheelchair or a person who can't bend over be compelled to carry a water bottle is NOT equivalent facilitation IMO.

An exception of sorts: in California, where drinking fountains located within common use areas of private multifamily housing (CBC1139A), there is no mention of both a high and a low requirement.

If you don't have room for both high and low, try to find a way around requiring any drinking fountains. An example is a food service facility, where the plumbing code may grant an exception and you provide drinking cups.
 
Looking for a requirement for that high and low drinking fountains need to be near each other? I am looking at a very large S1 building were they are putting the high and low abut 800' apart.
 
No way Rick, not equal.
As to bottle fillers, how would they meet controls requirements if bottle must be held to fill?
 
Texas accessibility standards (tas)
People with disabilities shall not be required to travel more than 250 feet from anywhere on a floor or level to reach an accessible drinking fountain if there are units provided within that distance.

Never seen it anywhere else
 
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ADA guy, Why would not a high and a low drinking fountain in the same building 800' apart be equal? They are equally apart from each other. What IBC section do you refer to that they need to be next to each other? Beside these two there are also 8 high and 8 low drinking fountains that are next to each other through out this million sq ft one story building. The two drinking fountains that I am talking about are the only ones separated (by 800').
 
Ah, clarification as to what is "big", thank you. Initially you did not mention that there were multiple DF's throughout the space, makes a difference.
What is the use of space, office, educational, warehouse, stadium? Seems odd if providing DF's not to make each Hi-lo but you may have your reasons. Are they all equal distance from each other?
 
rick18071, I've asked that question before, and I get different answers from different CASps, which leads me to think it's one of those subjective things, and you have to assess risk. I know this is a code forum, but if the goal is also to not get sued under ADA, then picture a scenario:
- A shakedown activist in a wheelchair is in the middle of the building, and asks someone, "where is the drinking fountain?"
- They answer: "400 feet to your right".
- He wheels over there, finds only the high fountain, and a sign that says, "For the low fountain, go 800 feet to your left".

What is the likelihood he's going to call his lawyer?
 
ADAguy, I'm going to guess the answer to "why must they be so far apart?", because I've been there before:
It's an existing building, with existing drinking fountain alcoves that are just big enough for either a high, or a low, but not both together. enlarging the alcove will destroy something important on the other side (typically a restroom) or will have a domino effect on other accessibility clearances.
 
No, it's a new million sq ft S1 building with about thousand miles of conveyors and 300 truck docks. I did not design it, I'm the inspector and notice there was only a low water fountain at one of the restrooms while the other restrooms that have both high and low. The building is not finished so I will be looking for the missing high water fountain before it's finished.
 
Rick18071 said:
No, it's a new million sq ft S1 building with about thousand miles of conveyors and 300 truck docks. I did not design it, I'm the inspector and notice there was only a low water fountain at one of the restrooms while the other restrooms that have both high and low. The building is not finished so I will be looking for the missing high water fountain before it's finished.
Click to expand...
Place a sign at the non-conforming unit referring to the other locations and call it done
 
MH, but he says it is a "new" bldg., as such the plans should have called for "all" DF's to be hi-lo, no?
 
Rick18071 said:
No, it's a new million sq ft S1 building with about thousand miles of conveyors and 300 truck docks. I did not design it, I'm the inspector and notice there was only a low water fountain at one of the restrooms while the other restrooms that have both high and low. The building is not finished so I will be looking for the missing high water fountain before it's finished.
Click to expand...

In that case, it may be OK as-is. Since 11B-212.2 only requires a minimum of 2 drinking fountains, and they have actually provided 3, then consider 11B-233.3 Exception:

11B-211.3 More than minimum number. Where more than the minimum number of drinking fountains specified in Section 11B-211.2 are provided, 50 percent of the total number of drinking fountains provided shall comply with Sections 11B-602.1 through 11B-602.6, 11B-602.8 and 11B-602.9, and 50 percent of the total number of drinking fountains provided shall comply with Sections 11B-602.7 and 11B-602.9.
Exception: Where 50 percent of the drinking fountains yields a fraction, 50 percent shall be permitted to be rounded up or down provided that the total number of drinking fountains complying with Section 11B-211 equals 100 percent of drinking fountains.
 
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