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California cities banning the installation of natural gas

Discussion in 'Off Topic Posts' started by mtlogcabin, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. tmurray

    tmurray Registered User

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    Yes, since a battery back-up system had a manufacturer's defect in it, we should ban all of them. Sometimes buildings fall down, so we should ban all of those too.

    This line of reasoning is based on confirmation bias. I don't want these things to be required, so when I hear that one is defective, they all must be banned, despite the fact that there are many other manufacturers have similar units that have not suffered from similar problems.
     
    mark handler likes this.
  2. tmurray

    tmurray Registered User

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    One can easily see why it may not be a good idea to run flammable gas underground in pipes in a seismically active area.
     
  3. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    Ya think, Northridge earthquake

    [​IMG]
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  4. conarb

    conarb Registered User

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    First of all I specifically referenced Tesla because Elon Musk recently made a proposal to sell "Power Walls" putting new batteries into his cars and recycling used ones into homes, these batteries seem to blow up and catch on fire in accidents, so my point is that in the infernos we have had I would not want Musk's Power Walls on my walls.

    Then the big issue is that you are taking my freedoms away and it's none of your damn business, you are supposed to be administrating building regulations to minimum health and safety standards, when the biggest problem we have is the enormous government employee pension liabilities, in our small city of Palo Alto the deficit is now approaching a half billion dollars.

    I was reading about the west African country of Togo instituting reforms in two areas, 1) electricity rates, and 2) building permits.

    You don't reduce electricity costs by adding transportation to the grid, but you could do something about "fees for construction permits".


    ¹ https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/west-african-coastal-states-are-failing-curb-worlds-biggest-piracy-problem
     
  5. tmurray

    tmurray Registered User

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    What law restricts elected officials in adopting only building regulations for health and safety standards?
     
  6. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    Back to the original topic ....
    Saw in the news today that some cities in Mass are also starting to restrict gas line connections.
     
  7. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    California Supercharges Battery Incentive for Wildfire-Vulnerable Homes
    A boosted $1-per-watt incentive will cover nearly the entire cost of a Tesla Powerwall home battery system.
    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/california-approves-100m-in-energy-storage-incentives-for-wildfire-resilien
    September 17, 2019
    California has passed its first-ever subsidy aimed specifically at bringing more distributed solar and energy storage to people at highest risk of having their power shut off by utilities trying to prevent wildfires.
    The California Public Utilities Commission approved changes (PDF) late last week to the Self-Generation Incentive Program, the state’s premier behind-the-meter battery incentive program. Among them is a $100 million carve-out for vulnerable households and critical services in Tier 2 and Tier 3 “high fire threat districts,” offering incentives that could pay for nearly all of a typical residential battery installation, according to the CPUC analysis.
    This supercharged incentive is aimed specifically at people at the highest risk of being hurt if, or when, grid power is cut off for hours or even days at a time under the state’s heightened wildfire prevention regime. While utilities have been sparing in their use of this new "public safety power shutoff" authority so far this summer, they are largely at the mercy of the weather to determine how often they’ll be forced to use it in the future, or how many customers might be affected.
    Climate change is driving hotter and drier conditions, putting large swaths of the state at high risk of catastrophic wildfires, including those caused by utility power lines. Pacific Gas & Electric’s bankruptcy was driven by its liabilities from wildfires in 2017 and 2018 caused by its power lines, and Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric have faced credit downgrades and the threat of insolvency if they’re hit with blame for a major fire.
    State regulators and lawmakers have responded to the crisis with steps including a $21 billion wildfire fund for utilities, as well as mandates to invest billions in grid repairs, tree-trimming, weather forecasting, and other wildfire prevention efforts. Thursday’s decision marks the first time the CPUC has approved one of the several proposals from utilities and distributed energy resources vendors such as Sunrun to put market-based incentives to work on the same task.
    The funding will come from SGIP’s equity budget, a set-aside for low-income, medically compromised or otherwise disadvantaged residents. Utilities and solar-storage vendors have struggled to enroll many of these customers in what’s still an expensive solar-storage proposition, leaving large portions of the equity budget unspent.
    The regulator's decision addresses many of challenges on this front, such as opening SGIP funding to specific Central Valley disadvantaged communities and participants in existing multi-family housing solar programs. It also boosts the current cap of 50 cents per watt-hour for battery installations, already higher than the mainstream incentive, to 85 cents per watt-hour.
    Higher premium
    The $100 million carve-out would apply an even higher premium to systems meant to bolster grid resilience against wildfires, up to $1 per watt-hour. “This will address the primary barrier to participation in SGIP by equity budget-eligible customers, particularly residential customers, which is lack of access to financing or capital,” the CPUC noted.
    Indeed, at $1 per watt-hour, SGIP pays for $13,200, or 98 percent, of the cost of the typical Tesla Powerwall residential battery system used as the CPUC’s reference case, compared to $6,600 or 50 percent at 50 cents per watt-hour, or $11,200, or 83 percent, at 85 cents per watt-hour.
    “Party comments on the proposed decision persuaded us that the risk of setting the incentive levels too low for the new equity resiliency budget and the equity budget, leading again to no or very low participation in these budgets, outweighs the risk that developers will inflate costs,” the CPUC wrote.
    Not everyone living in Tier 2 or 3 areas will be eligible for this funding, only “SGIP critical resiliency needs” customers. With a few exceptions, this includes people who meet the equity budget’s low-income and disadvantaged criteria, or are “medical baseline” customers who have notified their utility of a “serious illness or condition that could become life-threatening if electricity is disconnected.”
    Critical services and critical infrastructure in Tier 2 and 3 districts can also apply for the carve-out, although CPUC’s decision makes clear it will prioritize “only the most critical facilities and infrastructure and those with the least ability to fund a storage system.”
    The CPUC also set up new rules for critical resilience customers, who are meant to use their batteries to “island,” or run disconnected, from the grid, to deal with the fact that the SGIP program wasn’t designed for islanding. These include requirements to have the system inspected by the local utility or another authority with jurisdiction over its interconnection, and to file data on how long it can operate in island mode under different conditions.
    Beyond the $100 million wildfire carve-out, the decision makes some important changes to SGIP’s approach to low-income, disadvantaged and multifamily housing, the CPUC’s press release noted. Those include granting eligibility to participants in the Single Family Affordable Solar Homes (SASH) program, the SASH for Disadvantaged Communities program, the Solar on Multifamily Affordable Housing program, and the Multifamily Affordable Solar Housing program.
    The CPUC also approved $4 million for heat pump water incentives and $10 million for SGIP storage incentives to support pilot projects in 11 San Joaquin Valley disadvantaged communities.
     
  8. conarb

    conarb Registered User

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    The batteries in a Tesla cover the entire footprint of the car, I've seen a few burn and for days after there is a black spot on the roadway the footprint to the car, apparently the extreme heat draws the asphalt to the surface leaving a big tar spot, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tesla+fore&t=ffnt&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=CdaFk3w6rUY See one burn.

    Wal Mart has a huge lawsuit against Tesla for it's burning solar panels, Tiger will be interested in this, of all solar panels 0.05% caught fire, against 2.9% of Tesla's, Wal Mart vs Tesla.

    Elon Musk is saying he is working to take all cobalt out of his battery packs, they get most cobalt from the Congo where slavery is still legal, I wonder if it's a coincidence that our CIA has just overthrown the governments in Chile and Bolivia, the two countries with the largest supplies of lithium in the world.


    ¹ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/23/battery-lithium-south-america-chile-argentina-bolivia
     
    #48 conarb, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  9. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Won't the buildings just fall on the fires and put them out?
     
  10. Mark K

    Mark K Platinum Member

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    When the state legislature delegates the adoption of building codes to a state agency, such delegation is only legal if the legislature has defined the limits of the delegated authority. The statute that delegates the authority typically includes language indicating that the purpose of the building code is to protect health and safety. Thus the entity adopting the building code is constrained to addressing issues of health and safety.

    The Legislature can specify different criteria. This is already done when authorizing energy codes.

    Even if you believe that home rule applies to your local jurisdiction check with the state laws since there are often limits on home rule authority.
     
  11. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    Mark K
    The State Building Standards Commission and Energy Commission Receive and File amendments, without review, all the time.
    Both the Green Code and the Energy Code encourage the Local Agencies adopt stricter codes than those adopted by the state.

    We have now had four decades of experience with energy efficiency standards, when was the last time you saw a power plant built in CA?
    People complain about Nuclear, so they shut them down, but they want to have light.

    Now people are complaining about the "climate", so no more fossil fuel, when there are alternatives.
    State does not want to import Fossil fuels. (Nat. Gas is a Fossil fuel).

    The "ban" is consistent with the California's Climate change stance. and the goals of both the CA Green Code and the CA Energy Code.
     
  12. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    No the quakes usually crush cars. (Whitter Quake-1987)
    upload_2019-11-22_5-56-56.png
     

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