College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

[deegee62]

Governing code is the 2006 IBC [not the CBC]. Given, a college dormitory building. Please see attached GIF file. There are four areas labeled "LOUNGE" that are open to the rated exit corridor. I believe these spaces are not permitted to be open to the rated exit corridor and they must be separated from the rated exit corridor. What do you think?Dennis G. NolanBuilding Inspector IV,Plans Examiner

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[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I agree with you 100%, you wil get answers that say yea no problem.

I think it degrades the rating of the corridor.

If this is allowed why not take doors off of other rooms?????????????

welcome to the board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Yikes]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I haven't checked lately - are the dorm rooms required to open into a rated corridor, or can it be de-rated into an "intervening room" concept?

If it must remin as corridor, then put a pair of 4' wide doors on magnetic-hold-opens on these lounges, swinging outward (into the corridor).

 

[Gene Boecker]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I have to disagree.

What prevents them from being IN the corridor?

There's text to prohibit stuff from being the the exits but there's nothing prohibiting stuff from being in the corridor.

Also, although the sleeping units must be separated from the corridor due to the 1/2 hour rating, lounge areas in fully sprinklered buildings are not required to have a rated wall between them and a corridor. If there's no rating on the wall and no limit on the size of the openings, why not have the entire length be one large opening?

The only question I have is whether they are larger or smaller than 750 SF to be accessory or non-separated mixed use.

 

[daves]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I take this to be a corridor functioning as exit access, not an exit enclosure.

Can the "lounge" be interpreted to be similar in function and furnishing to a "foyer, lobby or reception room"? If yes, the corridor is permitted to pass through it (or I presume past it) without fire separation, provided the lounge itself is constructed as if it were a corridor. (1017.5)

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

1. the purpose of a rated corridor?

2. why is seperation required/ protected openings required??

then in "febamsu's" if you sprinkle it with water you do not rate, go fiqure?????????

 

[syarn]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

what if the space name "lounge" was removed/deleted from the permit drawing?

implying that these areas were part of the corridor....and the depth of these spaces to the exterior wall is 20ft or less (not a dead end)...

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

syarn

then when you do a final inspection of the "non labled " area and see couchs, chairs, tables, micro wave, what ever fire producing, smoke producing thing setting in the non labeled area, do you non label those items also???

 

[syarn]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

cda

no sir.

the drawing does not show these items and I would agree that in order to function as lounge these type items would probably need to be in this space...

however would you acknowledge that IF the corridor spaces in question were presented as a "corridor" per the drawing and you had no preconceived idea that the area was to be used as lounge that it would be compliant assuming the depth of each space was 20' or less?

e.g. what if the architect said these were "daylighting halls" to bring natural light into the hallway to comply with a LEED or CAL green requirement....

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

YEP agree

But I would also hope that I would question what the areas were, and either require label or documentation.

 

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I have to disagree.What prevents them from being IN the corridor?

There's text to prohibit stuff from being the the exits but there's nothing prohibiting stuff from being in the corridor.

In my opinion, 1017.5, Corridor continuity, prevents them from being IN the corridor.

I agree with CDA and others who say: if you allow this, why not allow other rooms; toilet rooms, storage rooms, break rooms, janitor's closet? Pretty soon you've got everything but the kitchen sink being called part of the corridor, and in my opinion that violates the intent and the letter (1017.5) of the code.

However, in this particular case, I agree with Daves and think the lounge is the same as a foyer, reception area or lobby, and if constructed as required for a corridor would qualify for the exception in 1017.5.

I've been approached numerous times by numerous man with pencil requesting toilet rooms, break rooms, vending rooms, etc to not be separated from the fire resistance rated corridor. That is a violation. If fire resistance rating is required, a corridor is a corridor, and a room is a room, and the two must be separated, with the only exceptions being foyers, lobbies, reception rooms.

 

[brudgers]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

What code section are you basing your denial upon?

 

[Gene Boecker]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I have to disagree.What prevents them from being IN the corridor?

There's text to prohibit stuff from being the the exits but there's nothing prohibiting stuff from being in the corridor.

In my opinion, 1017.5, Corridor continuity, prevents them from being IN the corridor.

I agree with CDA and others who say: if you allow this, why not allow other rooms; toilet rooms, storage rooms, break rooms, janitor's closet? Pretty soon you've got everything but the kitchen sink being called part of the corridor, and in my opinion that violates the intent and the letter (1017.5) of the code.

However, in this particular case, I agree with Daves and think the lounge is the same as a foyer, reception area or lobby, and if constructed as required for a corridor would qualify for the exception in 1017.5.

I've been approached numerous times by numerous man with pencil requesting toilet rooms, break rooms, vending rooms, etc to not be separated from the fire resistance rated corridor. That is a violation. If fire resistance rating is required, a corridor is a corridor, and a room is a room, and the two must be separated, with the only exceptions being foyers, lobbies, reception rooms.

So? When was the last time a vending machine burned down a building and killed people (I mean OTHER than by what was consumed - lol)? I'd lump that in with lobby/reception are/foyer. Ditto with the toilet room. They may be considered a hazardous waste facility but not highly combustible.

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

foy·er (foir, foi, fwäy)

n.

1. A lobby or anteroom, as of a theater or hotel.

2. An entrance hall; a vestibule.

lob·by (lb)

n. pl. lob·bies

1. A hall, foyer, or waiting room at or near the entrance to a building, such as a hotel or theater.

2. A public room next to the assembly chamber of a legislative body.

3. A group of persons engaged in trying to influence legislators or other public officials in favor of a specific cause: the banking lobby; the labor lobby.

Noun 1. reception room - a room for receiving and entertaining visitors (as in a private house or hotel)

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

HAY>>>>>>>>>>>

did anyone notice the single door leading from outside the elevator lobby into the two different wings??? with stairwell / 2nd exit???/ off of each wing?????

seems like a door swing problem to me!!!!

 

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

What code section are you basing your denial upon?

The section I quoted.

 

[syarn]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

so these doors swinging towards the stairway across from the elevators as opposed to towards the stairs at the end of each wing...I count around 20 bedrooms (?) loading each wing...not certain of 1 person/200 sf check...maybe less than 50 people load....???

 

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Gene said:

So? When was the last time a vending machine burned down a building and killed people (I mean OTHER than by what was consumed - lol)? I'd lump that in with lobby/reception are/foyer. Ditto with the toilet room. They may be considered a hazardous waste facility but not highly combustible

Oh, I can't tell you for sure if a classroom has ever burned down and killed people, so, we base our decisions on our perception rather than what the code says and allow the deletion of fire resistive rating between classroom and corridor? Just because a vending room has never burned down a building and killed anyone is no reason to ignore the code. If you want to call a bathroom and a vending room a lobby/reception/foyer, that's your right if you are the B.O., but I wouldn't agree with it.

I would venture to say that in a school, the MOST likely place for a fire to start is in a bathroom. Ask me how I know. I know we're not talking about schools here, but the concept is the same. If a fire resistive corridor is required, and you allow the deletion of the "fire resistive" part, you no longer have a viable corridor. Except for lobbies, reception areas and foyers.

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

exit continuity is being provided.

the problem is there is nothing in the i code talks about storage or the like, as use to be in the good old U codes!!!!!!!!!

oh the good old days when code books were thin and made sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

syarn

You are not going to take the entire floor into account, and other rooms that are not labeled including the non labled lounges?????

to require two seperate exits off the floor?????

 

[syarn]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

cda

yes agree that u should account for all occupiable spaces....was a rough order estimate...official occupancy based on sf and table 1004.1.1...

it looks like there are 3 exits (stairs) provided off the floor...

I thought u could take the total occupancy of the floor and than divide it evenly amongst the exits...with the caveat that the loss of an exit does not cut the available capacity to less than 50%???

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

syarn

sorry missed the third exit off the elevator lobby

the only thing is if the exits are required you have to legally be able to get to them.

with the third exit not sure if door swing is an issue?????????

looks like it would be though!!!!!!!!!!

and my call would be that the door has to swing in direction of egress, so in my call would need two doors, with each swinging opposite.

i wonder if those are rated walls where the corridor doors are located???

 

[Frank]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Lounges look alot like the reception rooms listed in1017.5 exception.

For intent look at the I-2 requirements in 407.2 that allow waiting areas and similar spaces open to the corridor with certain requirements--that might be used as basis for a modification as college students are generally capable of self preservation which would be a safer condition than the I-2 hospital or nursing home.

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Frank

think your mixing vodka and gin

would not compare the i and the r

see the smae tried in hotels and motels, and disagree that it should be allowed.