College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Edit: Deleted

 

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Edit: deleted

 

[hlfireinspector]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Not furnishings but close

805.1.1.

[F] SECTION 806

DECORATIVE MATERIALS AND TRIM

[F] 806.1 General requirements. In occupancies in Groups A,

E, I and R-1 and dormitories in Group R-2, curtains, draperies,

hangings and other decorative materials suspended from walls

or ceilings shall meet the flame propagation performance criteria

of NFPA 701 in accordance with Section 806.2 or be

noncombustible.

 

[Glennman CBO]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I agree with cda on this. If the furnishings are outside of the required width, what's the problem? Section 806 doesn't cover upholstered furniture, unless it hangs off the ceiling or walls.

Also, I don't believe the rooms can be construed as intervening rooms. The continuity is not interrupted even if the space doesn't exactly fit the "rooms" in the exception. The exception states that "foyers, lobbies, or reception rooms shall not be construed as intervening rooms", but that doesn't mean that these are the only rooms that aren't intervening (IMHO).

 

[FM William Burns]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Ok....lets call them "Study Halls"

 

[brudgers]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Ok....lets call them "Study Halls"

I have to admit, it was worth the three days it took to come up with that.

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

One person's opinion::::

http://www.nfpa.org/publicColumn.asp?ca ... e%5Ftest=1

 

[Gene Boecker]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

One person's opinion::::http://www.nfpa.org/publicColumn.asp?ca ... e%5Ftest=1

I can't get you a link but the same is true for ICC.

 

[brudgers]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

One person's opinion::::http://www.nfpa.org/publicColumn.asp?ca ... e%5Ftest=1

I can't get you a link but the same is true for ICC.

Until some committee decides it's a "loophole" and decides to close it.

 

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

Also, I don't believe the rooms can be construed as intervening rooms. The continuity is not interrupted even if the space doesn't exactly fit the "rooms" in the exception. The exception states that "foyers, lobbies, or reception rooms shall not be construed as intervening rooms", but that doesn't mean that these are the only rooms that aren't intervening (IMHO).

Glennman, 1017 says that fire resistive rated corridors shall not be interrupted by intervening rooms. It also says that foyers, lobbies and reception rooms shall not be construed as intervening rooms. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you think the code doesn't prohibit other rooms from intervening with the fire resistance rating. Which rooms would those be?

Given the example in the OP, let's say that in addition to the lounges (which I have stated I would consider foyers, but could and have easily been argued either way) they want a couple of offices with big nonrated glass windows and no fire rated separation from the corridor, several public toilet rooms with no separation, a small chapel with no fire rated separation and stained glass, oh, how about a small dining area, completely open to the corridor with no wall separation, and a couple of vending rooms that have no doors. I could go on, but you understand what I'm getting at. Granted, none of the spaces interfere with required width, but in this case the code requires fire rated construction for the corridor, and we don't have it. None of these rooms are lobbies, reception rooms or foyers. You could easily reach a point where you have more nonrated corridor walls than rated. Would you be OK with that?

Why would the code allow lobbies, foyers and reception rooms, without the words "and similar spaces", as are used throughout the code, if the intention was to allow just any intervening room to interrupt the fire resistance rating?

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I think some of the posts are mixing vodka and gin.

1. If a foyer was allowed in a rated corridor, as long as it is not an intervening room, then the walls that outline that foyer and connected to the rated corridor would be required to be rated.

( as in what some people call the envelope)

2. any other room would require seperation to include rated wall and opening protection.

3. I still even thought the code does not speak to it except in certain places, that how can you have a rated corridor and then stuff it full of combustibles, as long as it is not in the exit width.

 

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

2. any other room would require seperation to include rated wall and opening protection.

I agree. But in this forum, and in the old ICC forum, there were members who felt that as long as the intervening room was "wrapped", then it didn't need to be separated. I constantly get submittals from the Man With Pencil showing all kinds of rooms interrupting the rating of the corridor. Their argument is always, "but the rating is continuous along the back wall of the room"...

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

texasbo

1. agree

2. and that is why I think the original post is not compliant!!!! If it is then you can have as many of these rooms in the corridor as you want!!

 

[brudgers]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

2. any other room would require seperation to include rated wall and opening protection.

I agree. But in this forum, and in the old ICC forum, there were members who felt that as long as the intervening room was "wrapped", then it didn't need to be separated. I constantly get submittals from the Man With Pencil showing all kinds of rooms interrupting the rating of the corridor. Their argument is always, "but the rating is continuous along the back wall of the room"...

Let's start here: Under the code, what is used to separate the corridor from other spaces?

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

sheetrock

ibc 2006

section 1017

table 1017.1

 

[brudgers]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

sheetrockibc 2006

section 1017

table 1017.1

I didn't see "sheetrock" in IBC 2006.

Maybe it's only in CDA 2010?

 

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

2. any other room would require seperation to include rated wall and opening protection.

I agree. But in this forum, and in the old ICC forum, there were members who felt that as long as the intervening room was "wrapped", then it didn't need to be separated. I constantly get submittals from the Man With Pencil showing all kinds of rooms interrupting the rating of the corridor. Their argument is always, "but the rating is continuous along the back wall of the room"...

Let's start here: Under the code, what is used to separate the corridor from other spaces?

No, lets start here and not play games: say what you need to say to make your point.

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

brudgers

and its not in ::

ibc 2006

section 1017

table 1017.1

 

[brudgers]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I didn't expect to get the old "whatever the code official thinks it is" citation...at least not from CDA.

Until you know what the boundaries of the corridor are, how can you determine what's in it?

If only the code provided a technical definition of what separates the corridor.

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I go by the cookbook, if someone wants to change the recipe that is fine, and there is a way.

In my own mind from the code, from looking at plans, and what I think the intent is, I feel I know a corridor when I see one.

I keep going back what is the intent of a rated corridor. If you are going to fill it up with combustibles then what is the use in rating one.

Just like I do not agree with sprinkle and in a lot of cases you do not have to rate. I feel that is giving away to much.

 

[brudgers]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I feel I know a corridor when I see one.

How do you know your feeling is correct?

What does the code actually say?

 

[texasbo]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I feel I know a corridor when I see one.

How do you know your feeling is correct?

What does the code actually say?

What it DOESN'T say is that Man With Pencil Impersonating Jailhouse Lawyer get to apply some ridiculous, twisted logic to transpose the boundary of a corridor into what is really a room.

 

[brudgers]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

I feel I know a corridor when I see one.

How do you know your feeling is correct?

What does the code actually say?

What it DOESN'T say is that Man With Pencil Impersonating Jailhouse Lawyer get to apply some ridiculous, twisted logic to transpose the boundary of a corridor into what is really a room.

Your most useful contributions were the two that said "Edit: deleted."

 

[cda]

Re: College dormitory "lounges" open to the rated exit corridor

brudgers

So are you saying there is no such thing as a corridor???

Or what is your take on rooms connected to a corridor??

I know coming form u code background, that this is a sore subject from way back.

Just trying to build to some minimum standard