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Control Areas and interconnecting stair

Discussion in 'Commercial Fire Codes' started by hapyhour, May 19, 2020.

  1. hapyhour

    hapyhour Registered User

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    Can i have an interconnecting stair within a control area, that is open between just the two floors?

    CBC and CFC simply say that control areas need to be separated by fire barriers(CBC707) and/or horizontal assemblies (CBC 711). There are no other requirements out of CBC 414 or CFC 5003 regarding vertical openings in control areas. CBC 712.9 does not list control areas as a restriction for two-story open stairways.
     
  2. RLGA

    RLGA Sawhorse

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    If the stairway is within a single control area, then the floor opening will need to comply with Section 712. If the stairway connects two different control areas, then there must be complete separation, so the stair will need to be enclosed.
     
  3. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Never mind
     
    #3 cda, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  4. hapyhour

    hapyhour Registered User

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    The stairway will always connect two control areas, because you can no longer have a control area on more than one floor.
    Can i have a control area on one side of the building and the other be uncontrolled?
     
  5. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Code reference please and edition you are looking at:::

    """because you can no longer have a control area on more than one floor"""

    Your question does pertain to chemical and or flammable storage??????????
     
  6. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    check it........
     

    Attached Files:

  7. RLGA

    RLGA Sawhorse

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    Huh? Of course you can have a control area on more than one story. See Table 414.2.2.
    As long as the "uncontrolled" area has no hazardous chemicals and is separated from any control area.
     
  8. Enri Code

    Enri Code Sawhorse

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    You can still separate the control areas - as needed - at each floor if you can enclose the stair on either or both floors with walls and a door... or fire shutters if you want to keep the stairway open.

    In my opinion, I don't think you can cite omission of control areas by CBC 712.9 as a reason to remove fire barriers between control rooms as required by CBC 707. "Control areas need to be separated by fire barriers" seems to be a blanket statement and CBC 711 as an "AND/ OR" statement with regard to horizontal assemblies seems more situational.

    In the case of two control rooms stacked on top of each other... it doesn't seem to fit into strictly in a situation where horizontal barriers fully apply and Chapter 7 needs to be looked at in totality.
     
  9. hapyhour

    hapyhour Registered User

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    To clarify, you can not have a control area be vertical in a building, being on floors 3 and 4.
    We came to an agreement with the building department. one control area per floor, the open interconnecting stair will be allowed and the higher restriction of the 4th floor MAQ, 12.5%, will be applied to each floor.
     
  10. Enri Code

    Enri Code Sawhorse

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    Understood. Basically treating both floors as one in effect by adopting the requirements of what would be the floor with the higher restriction for both floors. Makes sense.
     
  11. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Interesting solution

    Not sure how they approved it.

    I would not put my name on it.
     
  12. RLGA

    RLGA Sawhorse

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    There is nothing in the IBC that precludes a control area from covering more than one story.

    Imagine the control areas as if they were a kitchen container system:
    [​IMG]
    Each container has a different size--some take up more floor area than others, while some may expand vertically through stories. However, unlike the kitchen containers, each container is limited to what IBC Tables 307.1(1) and 307.1(2) say they can hold regardless of the container's size. Also, each container must be separated from other containers with fire-resistant construction.

    When looking at the number of containers within each story per Table 414.2.2, you include the containers that extend through multiple stories, even if all the hazardous materials within that container are located on another story.

    The key element of the control area is to limit the quantity of hazardous materials within the control area ("container") and that each control area ("container") is physically separated from other control areas ("containers") within the same building using fire-resistant construction.

    If a multistory building has hazardous chemicals within it, but the quantities do not exceed those listed in Tables 307.1(1) and (2), then effectively the entire building is a single control area and the chemicals can be moved from story to story provided the quantities never exceed the maximum thresholds.
     
    Paul Sweet, my250r11 and Enri Code like this.
  13. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Interesting concept,

    Glad it has not been presented to
    Me, would still be Scratching my head.

    Maybe on paper it looks better, or when they bring the containers to
    My office.


    When the containers come in, I will take a picture and credit you.
     
    #13 cda, May 22, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  14. Enri Code

    Enri Code Sawhorse

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    Good explanation and visuals. Thank you.
     

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