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cooking demonstration kitchen

F

Flexo

REGISTERED
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Messages
48
Location
Cochise County Arizona
There is a business that wants to open soon in town. As I understand things they will be selling cookware and as part of the business they will be setting up a cooking area to demonstrate the use of their products. They intend to use residential appliances and hood. This is not residential, nor a restaurant. What would you require?
 
Class K fire extinguisher and nothing else
906.4 Cooking equipment fires.
Fire extinguishers provided for the protection of cooking equipment shall be of an approved type compatible with the automatic fire-extinguishing system agent. Cooking equipment involving solid fuels or vegetable or animal oils and fats shall be protected by a Class K-rated portable extinguisher in accordance with Sections 906.1, Item 2, 906.4.1 and 906.4.2 as applicable.
 
If it is not "grease and smoke" nor medium duty or higher appliance, Type I not required and they might be able to take caRE OF THE HEAT WITH THE hvac...darned FAT FINGERS....
 
This might be a Virginia amendment, since the on-line edition shows it in red print, but 505.4 allows electric domestic appliances in non-residential occupancies to have a domestic type hood. Fuel-fired appliances still need a Type I or II hood.

"Domestic" isn't defined, but it should fall outside the definition of "commercial" if the demonstration food isn't served after it is prepared.
 
So here is the real rub...Can you install a "residential" range in a "commercial" setting

301.7 Listed and labeled. Appliances regulated by this code shall be listed and labeled for the application in which they are installed and used, unless otherwise approved in accordance with Section 105.
 
We have a high school that is in the late stages of design. We met with the design team earlier this week, they pointed out that there is a classroon that has an adjoining kitchen. The purpose of the the setup is they will be teaching "life skills". There will be a residential stove/oven. They can't guarantee that there won't be any frying, so they are proposing installing a residential hood, fitted with an ansul system. The building is a Type I-B, fully sprinklered. We are having them submit the proposal in writing w/justification, so we would have that for the record. We are leaning towards accepting it.

Not trying to highjack the thread, just saying sometimes you need to think outside the box.
 
303.1 Listed Appliances. The installation of equipment and appliances regulated by this code shall be in accordance with the conditions of the listing, the manufacturer’s installation instructions and this code. The manufacturer’s installation and operating instructions shall be attached to the appliance. Clearances of listed equipment and appliances from combustible materials shall be as specified in the listing or on the rating plate.

Somewhere in there might be a prohibition of a commercial use for a listed residential appliance.
 
"Somewhere in there might be a prohibition of a commercial use for a listed residential appliance."

I don't think it is commercial, they are not preparing for for sale.
 
I don’t think it’s residential ‘cause it’s not in a house.
 
$ ~ $ ~ $

" There is a business that wants to open soon in town......As I understand things
they will be
Click to expand...
selling cookware and as part of the business they will be setting up a cooking
area to demonstrate the use of their products........They intend to use residential
appliances and hood........This is not residential, nor a restaurant.......What
would you require? "
Click to expand...
It is a Commercial business with a business model using Residential appliances & cookware.
What I or anyone else on this Forum would require is irrelevant..........What the local Building &
Fire Code Officials will require is the real question........I respectfully recommend that these
2 Code Officials be contacted to obtain their requirements, ..."in writing" !

$ ~ $ ~ $
 
The IMC does not have the words "residential" appliance only "domestic kitchen exhaust equipment". There is no definition of domestic in the IMC but there is a residential definition. Me thinks that by using the word "domestic" rather than "residential" there is nothing in the IMC to not allow a "domestic" cooking appliance in a commercial occupancy. We see them all the time in home ed and rehab centers.
 
fatboy said:
We have a high school that is in the late stages of design. We met with the design team earlier this week, they pointed out that there is a classroon that has an adjoining kitchen. The purpose of the the setup is they will be teaching "life skills". There will be a residential stove/oven. They can't guarantee that there won't be any frying, so they are proposing installing a residential hood, fitted with an ansul system. The building is a Type I-B, fully sprinklered. We are having them submit the proposal in writing w/justification, so we would have that for the record. We are leaning towards accepting it.

Not trying to highjack the thread, just saying sometimes you need to think outside the box.
Click to expand...

If you are legally allowed to think outside of the box....Correct....Here we get sued for negligence...
 
COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances used in a commercial food service establishment for heating or cooking food. For the purpose of this definition, a commercial food service establishment is where food is prepared for sale or is prepared on a scale that is by volume and frequency not representative of domestic household cooking.

I doubt they will be doing a volume and frequency of cooking that is more than my daughter house with 7 kids.
The class K fire extinguisher and the demonstrator trained in how to use it is all they should need for fire protection. The HVAC system should be sized to handle the additional odors and small amounts of smoke that may be produced
 
That is a way better definition than the 2015 IMC....

COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances
used in a commercial food service establishment for heating
or cooking food and which produce grease vapors, steam,
fumes, smoke or odors that are required to be removed
through a local exhaust ventilation system. Such appliances
include deep fat fryers; upright broilers; griddles; broilers;
steam-jacketed kettles; hot-top ranges; under-fired broilers
(charbroilers); ovens; barbecues; rotisseries; and similar
appliances. For the purpose of this definition, a food service
establishment shall include any building or a portion thereof
used for the preparation and serving of food.
 
I don't care for that one because the fire guys will use the fact that it is a commercial building and require the break room to have a suppression system and a type I hood in an office. There are those out there who will give a very hard line application of a code section in lieu of looking at the intent of the section and make a decision contrary to their personal believes regarding fire suppression systems that they need to be in every building and over all cooking appliances

You can require a heat detector to shut of the fuel supply (gas or electric) or even https://stovetopfirestop.com/ if you have concerns about the stove being left unattended
 
2018 IMC modified the definition of commercial cooking appliance, in my opinion its a good improvement:

COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances

used in a commercial food service establishment for heating
or cooking food. For the purpose of this definition, a commercial

food service establishment is where food is prepared

for sale or is prepared on a scale that is by volume and frequency

not representative of domestic household cooking.

They're not selling food and they are not cooking on a scale larger than typical household cooking, same as a break room or life skills/rehab classes.
Based on that, this would not require a type I hood, but a domestic hood as required in section 505.
 
steveray said:
If you are legally allowed to think outside of the box....Correct....Here we get sued for negligence...
Click to expand...

Serious, you are not comfortable interpreting the grey areas of the code? Legally?

Based on the responses here, obviously this is not a clear cut question/answer.

Yes, if I feel there is latitude in this situation.
 
I don't agree with it, don't get me wrong, but under the 2015, my hands are sort of tied. I would happily send them to the State to get a modification to use 2018, but that is how it works here...We have to enforce "as written" and the State makes formal interpretations or modifications so that we are on "one State code"...That no one enforces the same....;)
 
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