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Digitally Signed and Sealed Drawings

jar546

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If you accept digital plans, are you required to verify the signature?
Are you required to verify them but you just don't know it?

Here in Florida, yes, it is written into the State Statutes so this has become part of the plan review process.
 
How do you verify a wet signature?

My sense is that in most states that the building department does not have a legal duty to verify the validity of signatures.

I would be most concerned with those drawings where the signature is a scanned image and where a non-digital signature has been used. There have been cases where an unlicensed individual has taken a scanned signature and stamp of a licensed individual and has used this infer that project were prepared by the licensed individual when they were not.

The need to determine the validity of a signature, whether wet or digital, is to determine whether the named licensed individual intentionally signed the documents. This can be of great concern to the licensed individual when he is sued for problems with a design that he claims that he did not prepare. If the individual agrees that he prepared the documents there is no controversy.
 
Separate from the question of who prepared the construction documents, the nature of the review by the building department should be no different for documents prepared by licensed or unlicensed individuals.
 
How do you verify a wet signature?

My sense is that in most states that the building department does not have a legal duty to verify the validity of signatures.

I would be most concerned with those drawings where the signature is a scanned image and where a non-digital signature has been used. There have been cases where an unlicensed individual has taken a scanned signature and stamp of a licensed individual and has used this infer that project were prepared by the licensed individual when they were not.

The need to determine the validity of a signature, whether wet or digital, is to determine whether the named licensed individual intentionally signed the documents. This can be of great concern to the licensed individual when he is sued for problems with a design that he claims that he did not prepare. If the individual agrees that he prepared the documents there is no controversy.
We only accept PDF's uploaded to the system. All documents submitted that are prepared by a registered design professional must be digitally signed and sealed using a 3rd party verification program such as IdenTrust, Global Sign, Entrust, etc. An Adobe electronic signature is not compliant as it is not "verifiable." This is for the protection of the registered design professional (RDP). We do not accept scanned copies of any document that is from an RDP. In the past, when we accepted paper, we would only accept a wet-seal from an RDP and not copies; again, for the protection of the RDP. Unlike California, Florida is rather progressive and protects the RDPs with both paper and electronic drawing requirements.

100% of the time there was an issue with a signature, the RDP was happy that we were checking (we are required to). I occasionally get a dinosaur that does not have a verifiable digital signature, but they are few and far between. We had a learning curve with all of this due to COVID but it is now very easy and compliance is around 95% of submittals from RDPs. Once the RDP understands we are protecting them, they are thankful.
 
There are a small subset of buildings that do not require an architect or engineer sign the design. In such a case the building department could not reject a submission because they had not verified the signature.

Further it is my understanding that some plan checkers do not do a thorough review if the documents were signed by an engineer or architect.

The regulation of compliance with the building code are separate from the regulation of professional engineers and architects. Thus at least in California the laws do not require building departments to verify that the individual signing the documents has a current license. However, in California the licensing board encourages the building official to verify signatures.
 
There are a small subset of buildings that do not require an architect or engineer sign the design. In such a case the building department could not reject a submission because they had not verified the signature.

Further it is my understanding that some plan checkers do not do a thorough review if the documents were signed by an engineer or architect.

The regulation of compliance with the building code are separate from the regulation of professional engineers and architects. Thus at least in California the laws do not require building departments to verify that the individual signing the documents has a current license. However, in California the licensing board encourages the building official to verify signatures.
As you eluded to, building codes require drawings prepared by a licensed architect or engineer. The only way to verify that the drawings are from a licensed RDP is to either verify a wet stamp (easily faked) or in the case of PDF submittals, verify the digital signature. The BD has every right under adopted codes and state statutes to reject plans if they are legally not signed and sealed by an architect or engineer. The code required drawings from an RDP, and, the BD is legally responsible for ensuring the drawings submitted are just that.
 
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CT also requires many of the documents to be prepared by a licensed Architect or Engineer and the documents stamped and signed. If we suspect an issue with who stamped the documents we can easily verify their license online.

Attached is CT requirements for digital seals and signatures
 

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CT also requires many of the documents to be prepared by a licensed Architect or Engineer and the documents stamped and signed. If we suspect an issue with who stamped the documents we can easily verify their license online.

Attached is CT requirements for digital seals and signatures
CT is almost identical to FL which is why Bluebeam has been invaluable. Adobe Acrobat has a method to verify digital signatures too but I am not sure the system is as robust as Bluebeam.
 
Unlike California, Florida is rather progressive and protects the RDPs with both paper and electronic drawing requirements.
Are you saying we are regressive?

CA does allow Electronic Stamping


CA secretary of State

Division 5. Board for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors
§ 411. Seal and Signature. 16 CA ADC § 411
(e) The seal shall be capable of leaving a permanent ink representation, a permanent impression, or an electronically-generated representation on the documents. The signature may be applied to the documents electronically.

CA BPC section 5536.1 and CCR, title 16, section 136—stamp and signature requirement
CCR, title 16, section 136
Note: The Architects License board has not adopted any regulations that require a “wet” (original) stamp or signature or prohibit the use of an electronic stamp or signature.
 
Are you saying we are regressive?

CA does allow Electronic Stamping


CA secretary of State

Division 5. Board for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors
§ 411. Seal and Signature. 16 CA ADC § 411
(e) The seal shall be capable of leaving a permanent ink representation, a permanent impression, or an electronically-generated representation on the documents. The signature may be applied to the documents electronically.

CA BPC section 5536.1 and CCR, title 16, section 136—stamp and signature requirement
CCR, title 16, section 136
Note: The Architects License board has not adopted any regulations that require a “wet” (original) stamp or signature or prohibit the use of an electronic stamp or signature.
Not progressive does not mean regressive. It could just be par.
 
This is what Bluebeam sees when a signature is valid. There is a ton of more information you can drill down to if necessary when there is a problem.
 

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When the PDF is not digitally signed and sealed, the signature tool is empty. They may have a stamp shown on the plans but it is not valid without a digital signature. See below.
 

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Following are two excerpts from the state board. I have a plan in front of me, a pdf reviewed with BB. It has a seal, with a date and signature across the seal. So I wonder how it has come to be. Was it a paper plan, which has been scanned? (That seems unlikely) If the plan is "computer generated" (likely), was the stamp also computer generated? Is a pasted image considered "computer generated? What does "computer generated" mean? (the same rules apply to architects)

This is good example and the norm, but I do see lots that are barely legible, obviously scanned. I often get letters and emails directly from DP's with a seal and signature in the same manner. If these methods are not acceptable, should they not be on top of this? Occasionally I do get "electronic" signatures, and sometimes the actual seal disappears. Is that what is supposed to happen? This seems like a mess. If there are definite protocols then they should be policing themselves, and informing us how we can determine the validity of their documents....if they want us to. I recently had two occurrences of a contractor taking a page, adding designs they created, and submitting it as a revised page. In these cases, the revisions were suspect for various reasons, I called the DP, and he knew nothing of them. In both cases, there were no consequences! My guess is that this happens far more than we realize, but based on my experiences, the DP's don't seem to care.


1640711210438.png


1640710764598.png1640710953359.png
 
In these cases, the revisions were suspect for various reasons, I called the DP, and he knew nothing of them. In both cases, there were no consequences!
Why didn’t the DP report the situation to the state licensing board?
 
No idea for sure. Likely to promote and/or maintain a relationship....$$$$. Could be the hassle wasn't worth the cost. Either way, it sent a pretty strong signal to me that they didn't really care.
 
Here is another example. The seal and signature are barely legible, but it is "digitally signed"...but the whole thing is a copy, of a copy, of a copy(?). I see many different iterations of seals and signatures, just don't know if they are valid, and unless something throws up a red flag AND I am taught how to make the proper determinations I move on to the review, which is done the same whether sealed or not, valid or not.
1640714210158.png
 
Here is another example. The seal and signature are barely legible, but it is "digitally signed"...but the whole thing is a copy, of a copy, of a copy(?). I see many different iterations of seals and signatures, just don't know if they are valid, and unless something throws up a red flag AND I am taught how to make the proper determinations I move on to the review, which is done the same whether sealed or not, valid or not.
View attachment 8455
What is visible on the PDF as you see above is not relevant. What is inside the PDF as shown a few posts above by me is what's relevant. I can do just about anything to a PDF document between BB, AA or even Photoshop. This is why the digitally signed and sealed drawing verification is so important. It is actually better than a wet stamp and paper.
 
Following are two excerpts from the state board. I have a plan in front of me, a pdf reviewed with BB. It has a seal, with a date and signature across the seal. So I wonder how it has come to be. Was it a paper plan, which has been scanned? (That seems unlikely) If the plan is "computer generated" (likely), was the stamp also computer generated? Is a pasted image considered "computer generated? What does "computer generated" mean? (the same rules apply to architects)

This is good example and the norm, but I do see lots that are barely legible, obviously scanned. I often get letters and emails directly from DP's with a seal and signature in the same manner. If these methods are not acceptable, should they not be on top of this? Occasionally I do get "electronic" signatures, and sometimes the actual seal disappears. Is that what is supposed to happen? This seems like a mess. If there are definite protocols then they should be policing themselves, and informing us how we can determine the validity of their documents....if they want us to. I recently had two occurrences of a contractor taking a page, adding designs they created, and submitting it as a revised page. In these cases, the revisions were suspect for various reasons, I called the DP, and he knew nothing of them. In both cases, there were no consequences! My guess is that this happens far more than we realize, but based on my experiences, the DP's don't seem to care.


View attachment 8454


View attachment 8452View attachment 8453
(b)
(II) Capable of verification.

That says it all. Only capable with a 3rd party verification service used by the RDP
 
What is visible on the PDF as you see above is not relevant. What is inside the PDF as shown a few posts above by me is what's relevant. I can do just about anything to a PDF document between BB, AA or even Photoshop. This is why the digitally signed and sealed drawing verification is so important. It is actually better than a wet stamp and paper.
Unless it is a copy. State rules say "digital authentication process attached to or logically associated with"...Huh?
 
Unless it is a copy. State rules say "digital authentication process attached to or logically associated with"...Huh?
So there is a method where the RDP digitally imbeds a long, alpha-numeric code and then you have to contact the RDP to verify the code. The problem is that the law also requires that if the documents are altered, it is required to invalidate the signature. So no, no scanned copies.
 
I just received a sealed structural plan. It has a seal, date and signature in ink, all either scanned or flattened. It also has a "digital signature" space next to it, and when I click on it, I can digitally sign it. I just don't understand!
 
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