"Disabled". An over counted minority

[ICE]

baby stroller user can use it.

There ya go, start 'em off young.

 

[mark handler]

There ya go, start 'em off young.

Young, old and those disabled in between.

 

[Msradell]

You certainly have a sense of entitlement and are vindictive at that.

Certainly not, I just know what the law says and means! It's been around long enough that there is no excuse for any business not to be in compliance.

 

[mark handler]

Certainly not, I just know what the law says and means! It's been around long enough that there is no excuse for any business not to be in compliance.

Especially those businesses and buildings that have been around less than twenty years

 

[mtlogcabin]

Equal rights, and access, is a Basic American Principal. You seem to speak of having a right to something, as an Bad thing and mistakenly equate an entitlement with a bad thing, We are all entitled to rights given by our laws.ADA is not a special privilege, it creates equal, not special, equal access.

If you provide equal access, you provide equal opportunities, and the Disabled will not be on the disability/welfare roles.

There are 2 different kinds of rights that are granted by government. Negative rights and Positive rights

"Negative freedom or rights refers to the absence of constraint or coercion when people engage in peaceable, voluntary exchange. Some of these negative freedoms are enumerated in our Constitution's Bill of Rights. More generally, at least in its standard historical usage, a right is something that exists simultaneously among people. As such, a right imposes no obligation on another. For example, the right to free speech is something we all possess. My right to free speech imposes no obligation upon another except that of noninterference. Likewise, my right to travel imposes no obligation upon another.

Positive rights is a view that people should have certain material things -- such as medical care, decent housing and food -- whether they can pay for them or not. Seeing as there is no Santa Claus or tooth fairy, those "rights" do impose obligations upon others. If one person has a right to something he did not earn, of necessity it requires that another person not have a right to something he did earn.

Comparing ADA which is a positive civil right to all other civil rights such as right to vote and not be required to ride in the back of the bus or use a different facility because of you may be from a different ethnic or racial background which are a negative right is not apples to apples

As a business owner I can easily accommodate any racial or ethnic person without a significant expenditure of funds. Under ADA this is not possible. Money is not free and easily available and for those who make the statements it is the law and the have had twenty years to comply does not solve the funding problems. A business has to make a profit before it can invest itself back into its facilities. Some mom and pops just do not make that kind of money.

 

[mjesse]

As a business owner I can easily accommodate any racial or ethnic person without a significant expenditure of funds. Under ADA this is not possible. Money is not free and easily available and for those who make the statements it is the law and the have had twenty years to comply does not solve the funding problems. A business has to make a profit before it can invest itself back into its facilities. Some mom and pops just do not make that kind of money.

Well said sir.

mj

 

[kilitact]

There are 2 different kinds of rights that are granted by government. Negative rights and Positive rights"Negative freedom or rights refers to the absence of constraint or coercion when people engage in peaceable, voluntary exchange. Some of these negative freedoms are enumerated in our Constitution's Bill of Rights. More generally, at least in its standard historical usage, a right is something that exists simultaneously among people. As such, a right imposes no obligation on another. For example, the right to free speech is something we all possess. My right to free speech imposes no obligation upon another except that of noninterference. Likewise, my right to travel imposes no obligation upon another.

Positive rights is a view that people should have certain material things -- such as medical care, decent housing and food -- whether they can pay for them or not. Seeing as there is no Santa Claus or tooth fairy, those "rights" do impose obligations upon others. If one person has a right to something he did not earn, of necessity it requires that another person not have a right to something he did earn.

Comparing ADA which is a positive civil right to all other civil rights such as right to vote and not be required to ride in the back of the bus or use a different facility because of you may be from a different ethnic or racial background which are a negative right is not apples to apples

As a business owner I can easily accommodate any racial or ethnic person without a significant expenditure of funds. Under ADA this is not possible. Money is not free and easily available and for those who make the statements it is the law and the have had twenty years to comply does not solve the funding problems. A business has to make a profit before it can invest itself back into its facilities. Some mom and pops just do not make that kind of money.

well put mtlogcabin.

 

[ADAguy]

That "kind of money" being how much? it is far less then paying an attorney or the plaintiff. 20 years at 500 a year ='s 10k, you can do an awful lot with 10k. Its deductable and your business is now open to all.

Can you stay open on only $1,000 profit a year? Why stay in business?

 

[steveray]

"Comparing ADA which is a positive civil right to all other civil rights such as right to vote"

I am pretty sure the right to vote costs more than just about any other right we have.....Start adding up the politicos salaries.....

 

[mark handler]

Some mom and pops just do not make that kind of money.

Can you say Tax credits and Tax deductions.....

They have had twenty plus years, That excuse is getting real old real fast

Just enforce the code, and stop sweating the stuff you cannot change, nor worry about stuff that does not pertain to you

 

[JPohling]

^^ Exactly

 

[mjesse]

That "kind of money" being how much? it is far less then paying an attorney or the plaintiff. 20 years at 500 a year ='s 10k, you can do an awful lot with 10k. Its deductable and your business is now open to all.Can you stay open on only $1,000 profit a year? Why stay in business?

If you're forced to spend your "profit" on your building, it's not profit.

Running a business is a risk. IF there is financial reward (profit) the risk taker has earned his right to keep it. He or she may just want to put a kid through school, or save for retirement, or buy some muscle cars.

If you've never run a business in this country, you might be surprised at the amount of overhead already imposed by various factions of government. It's not at all like running a lemonade stand on your mom's front sidewalk. You actually have to buy the stand, the pitcher, the lemons, the sugar, cups, ice, water, signs, markers, etc. BEFORE you even get to sell a cup.

Business license, 5 types of insurance, workers comp., FICA, taxes, legal fees, et. al. Pretty soon your lemonade costs go up to $5 a cup.

Sally next door is being bankrolled by her great uncle Vladamir, who decides to undercut your price by 20%. Then somebody complains that your stand is 1.5 inches too high, requiring you to rebuild it or face a lawsuit.

Where's the miraculous government bailout, or tax credit for that?

 

[mtlogcabin]

Can you stay open on only $1,000 profit a year?

Yes as long as all your expenses are paid for. This would include taxes, salaries, insurance, rent and a host of other liabilities.

[h=2]Investopedia explains 'Profit'[/h] Profit is the money a business makes after accounting for all the expenses. Regardless of whether the business is a couple of kids running a lemonade stand or a publicly traded multinational company, consistently earning profit is every company's goal. The path toward profitability can be long. For example, online bookseller Amazon.com was founded in 1994 and did not produce its first annual profit until 2003. Many start ups and new businesses fail when the owners run out of capital to sustain the business.

 

[JPohling]

should have been paying attention to how high you built that counter

 

[mark handler]

If you're forced to spend your "profit" on your building, it's not profit.

If you are force to payout bigger penalties, you have no profit, oh ya except for the 15,000 in tax breaks

after they spend 15k, then they can complain

It is the people that make no effort, that get no sympathy

 

[mtlogcabin]

A business has to spend $10,250.00 to receive a maximum Tax Credit of $5,000.00

A Tax Deduction may only reduce the tax bracket by a small or zero percentage depending on their gross income.

No matter how you look at it ADA improvements are not free to a business or building owner.

http://www.ada.gov/archive/taxpack.pdf

The amount of the tax credit is equal to 50% of

the eligible access expenditures in a year, up to

a maximum expenditure of $10,250. There is no

credit for the first $250 of expenditures. The

maximum tax credit, therefore, is $5,000.

Tax Deduction

The tax deduction, established under Section

190 of the Internal Revenue Code, is now a

maximum of $15,000 per year—a reduction

from the $35,000 that was available through

December 31, 1990. A business (including

active ownership of an apartment building) of

any size may use this deduction for the removal

of architectural or transportation

barriers. The renovations under Section 190

must comply with applicable

accessibility standards.

Small businesses can use these incentives in

combination if the expenditures incurred

qualify under both Section 44 and Section 190.

For example, a small business that spends

$20,000 for access adaptations may take a tax

credit of $5000 (based on $10,250 of expenditures),

and a deduction of $15,000. The

deduction is equal to the difference between

the total expenditures and the amount of the

credit claimed.

EXAMPLE: A small business’ use of both tax credit

and tax deduction

$20,000 cost of access improvements

(rest room, ramp, 3 doors

widened)

– $5,000 maximum credit

$15,000 remaining for deduction

 

[MASSDRIVER]

The ignorance of what a tax credit is and does is astounding.

Brent

 

[mark handler]

The ignorance of what a tax credit is and does is astounding. Brent

As is the ignorance shown on this thread

 

[mark handler]

http://missionlocal.org/2011/08/business-owners-fear-%E2%80%9Cdrive-by%E2%80%9D-ada-lawsuits/

Average lawsuit in CA is 20, 000

Which is money well spent?

 

[mtlogcabin]

The ignorance of what a tax credit is and does is astounding. Brent

The ADA tax credit applies to 50% of the cost of the improvements

Enlighten me if I am wrong

 

[mark handler]

No matter how you look at it ADA improvements are not free to a business

Nor is a lawsuit to comply with the law

 

[ICE]

That "kind of money" being how much? it is far less then paying an attorney or the plaintiff. 20 years at 500 a year ='s 10k, you can do an awful lot with 10k. Its deductable and your business is now open to all.Can you stay open on only $1,000 profit a year? Why stay in business?

I can't speak for the average small business owner just because I have been one, however, there was never any profit. What there was is a bank account. On any given day, it might go up or it might go down but I never thought "I've got profit". What I had was income. Some months were a damned good income and some were just damned.

Had I been forced to spend ten grand, it wouldn't be profit getting tossed down a rabbit hole.

 

[mark handler]

The ADA tax applies to 50% of the cost of the improvementsEnlighten me if I am wrong

The example you posted show s a 20k expenditure and a20k credit/detection and it can be spread over years

Many leases I have seen here in California, the landlord is responsible for the exterior and the tenant the interior.

Many landlords in a city I am involved with are fixing all their units prior to rerenting them to the small business es.

We are still getting the dive by suit s

I tell the property owners to fix the exterior signage then parking

Non of that costs much

Fix the “Red Flags”: Most businesses believe they cannot afford full ADA compliance, even with the tax breaks available to make ADA repairs. While any failure to be 100% compliant can lead to a lawsuit, businesses should be reminded that there are certain “red flags” which make any site a prime target:

a. Parking: Perhaps more than any other source of lawsuits, a lack of properly configured and signed van-accessible disabled parking invites further scrutiny. It is a known fact that many attorneys use “scouts” to look for non-compliant properties to sue.

Because so many lawsuits involve allegations of a lack of compliant parking (and little else), one wonders if these scouts would simply have driven on to look for other locations if they had a fully compliant parking area. Making the parking area compliant is often one of the least expensive renovations a business can make. Obviously, be sure a wheelchair accessible path to the front entrance is clearly marked and kept free of obstructions.

b. Entrances: Again, this is a drive-by “Red Flag”; aside from the fact that the entrance should be accessible, it should also look accessible. Be sure there are no impediments to access; have employees check throughout the day to make sure nothing has been set in public paths which could impede access. You can walk around a moving palette, but could a wheelchair? Can you imagine anything more frustrating the needing to use a restroom or attend an important event or meeting and not being able to enter the facility?

c. Restrooms: If you provide restroom facilities to the general public, they need to be fully accessible.

Certainly, the access door is a major red flag, but

there are a host of other compliance issues as well. You could demolish and completely rebuild a restroom for what you might have to pay an attorney just to begin defending an ADA case. Don’t ask whether you can afford it, ask whether you can afford not to do it.

http://www.adalawsuits.com/images/040803_ADA_What_you_need_to_know_about_ADA_lawsuits.pdf

 

[Msradell]

As a business owner I can easily accommodate any racial or ethnic person without a significant expenditure of funds. Under ADA this is not possible. Money is not free and easily available and for those who make the statements it is the law and the have had twenty years to comply does not solve the funding problems. A business has to make a profit before it can invest itself back into its facilities. Some mom and pops just do not make that kind of money.

Given your way of thinking, why do you bother painting your place of business, hanging sign or improving equipment? You do it to attract customers, you want more customers to come to your business so that you can make money, plain and simple.

It's the same thing when you make your business accessible. By doing so you will have more customers had previously wouldn't have used your business and thus you make more money. And by doing changes that allow you to become compliant you get a tax deduction, something you don't get from many items you do to improve your business.

Now if you want to talk about other negative (or positive since you're not really clear what kind of write you think it is) rights imposed by the government, what about restrictions placed in your business by the local and state health boards or other regulatory agencies? How many of those do you really think are stupid and not really relevant for your business? Probably quite a few of them if you're like most businesses. You obviously have to comply with these regulations or your business would be closed down. Why should it be any different for the ADA requirements?

Maybe and only maybe if your business is over 20 years old and was started before the ADA was passed by Congress and signed by the president you may have an argument for not being in compliance. If you started your business after that time you certainly have no argument because the cost of complying should've been included in your business plan and projected expenses when you started your business!