my250r11
Sawhorse
More than likely, yes
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Does multi-use room (e.g. office, den) need a EERO?
- Thread starter Dali748
- Start date
Elevator, no... but I'd bet that you have two stairway shafts.
I reached out to the contractor and I'm getting confused on what he is telling me. I asked him to send me the permits they pulled to do this remodel and he then tells me the following "the work was done with permission from just the HOA and that it was not done with permission from the city since the previous owner did not require or request this service."
That prompted me to ask him, that I was under the impression that any remodel that requires a room addition, plumbing, electrical is required to pull city permits always; his reply to this is the following "Yes, but previous owner didn't commit. Previous owner submitted plans only to HOA and they gave him approval, and the HOA didn't apply for city-approved permits." He goes on to also state that "in fact that unit can only have one room declared by the egress windows".
Now I'm not a licensed contractor, but isn't it the contractor's responsibility to pull city permits since his license has to be listed on the permit? I don't believe it's the HOA's responsibility to pull city permits if they're not the ones actually doing the work; right?
And if he's also telling me that the "unit can only have one room declared by the egress windows"; why in the world would he go through with updating this unit to a 2-bedroom when he is already telling me it's not allowed?
Based on the responses I received here, since this is a high-rise and most likely has to stairway shafts I don't believe an egress window is needed within my unit for this added room.
Thank you!
That prompted me to ask him, that I was under the impression that any remodel that requires a room addition, plumbing, electrical is required to pull city permits always; his reply to this is the following "Yes, but previous owner didn't commit. Previous owner submitted plans only to HOA and they gave him approval, and the HOA didn't apply for city-approved permits." He goes on to also state that "in fact that unit can only have one room declared by the egress windows".
Now I'm not a licensed contractor, but isn't it the contractor's responsibility to pull city permits since his license has to be listed on the permit? I don't believe it's the HOA's responsibility to pull city permits if they're not the ones actually doing the work; right?
And if he's also telling me that the "unit can only have one room declared by the egress windows"; why in the world would he go through with updating this unit to a 2-bedroom when he is already telling me it's not allowed?
Based on the responses I received here, since this is a high-rise and most likely has to stairway shafts I don't believe an egress window is needed within my unit for this added room.
Thank you!
Dali, I would suggest that you listen to the folks round here, and not the previous contractor who thinks that it was on the HOA to pull the permit. Sounds like this contractor is a real winner and perhaps not the best source for information on how you should proceed.
Yeah, I'm definitely not taking his advice but just trying to gather a paper trail this way I can show this to real estate/contractor attorney; maybe it will help my case to show in writing that the contractor continued to do the work without getting the proper city permits.
RLGA
SAWHORSE
If the remodel/renovation did not go through the local plan review process for a permit, then the work is considered nonconforming. It is typically the contractor's responsibility to pay for and obtain the permit after the plans have been reviewed and approved, but it is usually the owner's responsibility (or the architect's if one is hired) to submit for the plan review.
If the room was added without an approved permit, then the project must be reverted back to the approved floor plan that existed when the CofO was issued. There may be a chance of getting a post-construction review and approval, but that will probably be on a case by case basis. Maybe they'll approve based on partial demolition (removing one side of the partitions so that any framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, etc. items can be inspected. Then all you have to do is reapply the gypsum board on the one side (assuming everything was okay).
If they deny post-construction approval, it won't be on the basis of a missing EERO, it will be on the fact that none of the work was inspected as it was being constructed. You can rip out the alteration, submit a plan that has the new room for approval, and then construct it--again.
If the room was added without an approved permit, then the project must be reverted back to the approved floor plan that existed when the CofO was issued. There may be a chance of getting a post-construction review and approval, but that will probably be on a case by case basis. Maybe they'll approve based on partial demolition (removing one side of the partitions so that any framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, etc. items can be inspected. Then all you have to do is reapply the gypsum board on the one side (assuming everything was okay).
If they deny post-construction approval, it won't be on the basis of a missing EERO, it will be on the fact that none of the work was inspected as it was being constructed. You can rip out the alteration, submit a plan that has the new room for approval, and then construct it--again.
Hi,
I purchased a condo in a commercial building (half condo, half hotel) in Miami about a year ago. The previous owner ended up converting the unit into a 2-bedroom, and in this building owners just need to submit an application to the HOA for construction approval, and then it's up to the owner/GC to pull the city permits. However, I come to find out after doing a permit search that the previous owner didn't pull any city permits for the work done.
Fast forward to today, the building allows short-term rentals (e.g. Airbnb) but due to Covid they are now enforcing all owners to provide all the documentation that the city of Miami requires to allow short-term rentals, and one of the things they need is a "change of use" to show the unit listed as a "condo-hotel". This is where I run into an issue after reaching out to different architects/contractors that provide a "legalization" services to bring the unit up to code and also a "change of use" to show "condo-hotel".
In one of the proposals I received, they want to provide demolition services to bring the unit back to the original layout and state the reason is because the bedroom doesn't have direct access to the exterior (EERO? R310?). I obviously do not want to remove this extra room, so my question is, would I be able to bring my unit up to code by labeling this room as a "multi-use room (e.g. office, den)"?
Below are screenshot image links of the original and upgraded floor plans of the unit.
Original Floor Plan: https://gyazo.com/0b3c42b72cac0f73bb57dd7e3bb878e1
Upgraded Floor Plan:
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Thank you!
Ok
With everything that has been said,,,
I am thinking just do the city paperwork to get condo-hotel approved.
Your unit meets code as it sets, as long as you have smoke alarms in and outside each bedroom.
Forget about who did what.
Let the city decide if you need to do anything else.
Don’t stir the pot, unless the food is burning.
my250r11
Sawhorse
Big can of worms. Here the State might bring charges on the contractor for working with out a permit.
As said talk to local AHJ to see if it can be inspected with only partial demo.
Good Luck.
As said talk to local AHJ to see if it can be inspected with only partial demo.
Good Luck.
I just talked to the previous contractor and he kept on telling me that the HOA manager didn't require city permits and they approved the work at the building. I was like what does that matter , you're a licensed contractor and any work you do needs a city permit pulled.
He said it was my issue with the previous owner and not him, and that I should have looked into this before purchasing the unit. In hindsight, I guess it's partly my fault for not doing more due diligence when purchasing this condo but since the seller wrote permits where pulled on the seller's disclosure I didn't follow through doing my own permit search with the city at that time.
Yeah, hopefully after talking to a AHJ I can get more clarity.
Ok
With everything that has been said,,,
I am thinking just do the city paperwork to get condo-hotel approved.
Your unit meets code as it sets, as long as you have smoke alarms in and outside each bedroom.
Forget about who did what.
Let the city decide if you need to do anything else.
Don’t stir the pot, unless the food is burning.
DO You even know if the city comes out and does an intial or any inspection of a "" "condo-hotel". """?????????????????????????????
my250r11
Sawhorse
Be kind and inform us of the outcome of that. Don't leave us hanging.
Seems to me the contractor doesn't care about permits. Not sure he would be my choice of info. Each Building Official has their own way of dealing with these issues. Some are stiff and some will meet in the middle and some will leave it be. Seen it go all ways depending on the situation and even what mood the BO is in. Thus why I said good luck.
Seems to me the contractor doesn't care about permits. Not sure he would be my choice of info. Each Building Official has their own way of dealing with these issues. Some are stiff and some will meet in the middle and some will leave it be. Seen it go all ways depending on the situation and even what mood the BO is in. Thus why I said good luck.
RLGA
SAWHORSE
I can't speak for your specific situation, but some facility owners may have an annual permit with the local jurisdiction to cover the many renovations that a large facility may undergo within a year's timeframe. Each jurisdiction with this type of program will likely have its own policies and procedures. Sometimes, self-certification is all that is needed with notification to the AHJ for inspection. More complex projects may require an on-site plan review or a more in-depth plan review if deemed necessary.
You may want to at least verify if the jurisdiction does have a similar program and if the HOA is part of that program. If there is no program or the HOA is not part of the program, then all previous comments apply. If there is a program and the HOA is a part of it, then you need to determine if the HOA complied with the program's procedures. If they didn't, then the HOA could be found in violation.
You may want to at least verify if the jurisdiction does have a similar program and if the HOA is part of that program. If there is no program or the HOA is not part of the program, then all previous comments apply. If there is a program and the HOA is a part of it, then you need to determine if the HOA complied with the program's procedures. If they didn't, then the HOA could be found in violation.
ICE
Oh Well
The seller probably has a document that you signed stating that you did in fact research building dept. records on your own. Realtors have that as standard procedure because they do not research the records and do not want to know the truth. If they do not know the truth they can't be faulted for not telling you the truth.
The contractor is a either a liar or stupid and most likely a stupid liar. The seller stated that permits were obtained and he can claim that he based that on the fact that he hired a licensed contractor....and you know the rest of that story.
Be kind and inform us of the outcome of that. Don't leave us hanging.
Seems to me the contractor doesn't care about permits. Not sure he would be my choice of info. Each Building Official has their own way of dealing with these issues. Some are stiff and some will meet in the middle and some will leave it be. Seen it go all ways depending on the situation and even what mood the BO is in. Thus why I said good luck.
Yes, definitely
hopefully this goes smoothly.Oh ok, thank you for bringing this point up; I'll look into this as well.
I did the permit search after I closed on the property, but you're probably right; you sign so many documents during the close I'm sure there is something in there that I did already do the permit search during attorney review.
Hahaha...yeah, I'm sure there will be a lot of finger pointing going on between those two! Lol.
ADAguy
Registered User
Less then a year, statuate of limitations? Your realtor had a duty to inform you, no? Did you have an inspection report done?
ADAguy
Registered User
Did you say that this is in Manhatten?
Yes, definitely
Oh ok, thank you for bringing this point up; I'll look into this as well.
I did the permit search after I closed on the property, but you're probably right; you sign so many documents during the close I'm sure there is something in there that I did already do the permit search during attorney review.
Hahaha...yeah, I'm sure there will be a lot of finger pointing going on between those two! Lol.
DO You even know if the city comes out and does an intial or any inspection of a "" "condo-hotel". """?????????????????????????????
Yeah, had an inspection done when under attorney review and everything came back fine. I feel like inspection reports just look at if anything is wrong with the property and don't look at anything pertaining to permits / work done at the properly.
No, this is in Miami.
So maybe a little worry for nothing???
Find out
City may just want a piece of paper filled out and money in their pockets.
Call the city or should be online
Do you want to say which city it is
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