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door to nowhere

lpiburn

lpiburn

Silver Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
103
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Hello all,This photo is from a current project with a 2nd floor mechanical "mezzanine". There is a floor hatch for normal maintenance access provided elsewhere. The Owner requested this additional opening to accommodate replacement parts etc. It would be accessed via scissor lift.

View attachment 2006

The original plan was for this to be a 3'x4' access panel, not a real door. The contractor decided to install a regular door anyway (long story). We are planning on rejecting this because someone working in the mezzanine could open the door and fall 14' to the room below. However, I'm really not sure if there are any specific code sections to back us up.This is strictly maintenance only, not an egress door, not accessible by any means. So essentially all of chapter 10 and 11 should not apply. Even so, it just seems patently unsafe to have a full-size door opening onto nothing! Do you think it would suffice to have a big warning sign on the inside saying "DANGER, FALL HAZARD" or something along those lines?I look forward to hearing your opinions on this one.-LPView attachment 2006

/monthly_2013_11/572953ef5ac9d_mezzaninedoor.jpg.158e225f204d685349432142e8e50e61.jpg
 
sign it and put two dead bolts on it, and paint it totaly caution yellow on the inside where no one sees it
 
For peace of mind, I would add some sort of guard across the door opening. Personnel would need to disable the guard before falling to the floor below.

Perhaps a removable one (42" high)? I do not know that I would add all the vertical pieces called out for in Chapter 10 restricting a 4" sphere from passing through, but I would add some horizontal ones to prevent someone from passing beneath the top rail.

Perhaps a self-closing swinging gate used for elevated platforms?
 
I would require the door to swing in and a second guard/gate to reduce the possibility of a fall.

Think of a material hoist-way. They usually have two closures
 
There needs to be a landing with a guard that includes a gate. That landing needs to be engineered for the attachment to the wall.

Well lit with a "No Diving" sign.
 
mtlogcabin said:
I would require the door to swing in and a second guard/gate to reduce the possibility of a fall.Think of a material hoist-way. They usually have two closures
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I would require the architect or engineer to propose a solution in writing, stamped and signed.

But might suggest this second gate as a possiblity.

I don't think a landing would be necessary.

There are some gates here that are getting at it:

http://psdoors.com/photo-gallery/safety-fall/
 
Although I agree with MT's proposal, remember the hay loft doors on the ole' barn? I'm glad ag buildings are exempt :roll:
 
I would go the way of MT also. But I agree with Fort, it should come to you as an altenative method, not you proposing it to them.
 
Thanks for the suggestions! I'm actually on the design team, not the AHJ, so I do need to be the one to suggest a solution. Also, the placement of some of the equipment prevents the door from swinging in, as well as some of the more sturdy solutions like the gates Fort linked to.

At the moment I am thinking that if we paint the door safety yellow, chain across it, and provide warning signs both on the door and hanging from the chain then that should be sufficient to keep some poor maintenance guy from saying "I wonder where this goes..." and breaking his neck.
 
lpiburn said:
Thanks for the suggestions! I'm actually on the design team, not the AHJ, so I do need to be the one to suggest a solution. Also, the placement of some of the equipment prevents the door from swinging in, as well as some of the more sturdy solutions like the gates Fort linked to.At the moment I am thinking that if we paint the door safety yellow, chain across it, and provide warning signs both on the door and hanging from the chain then that should be sufficient to keep some poor maintenance guy from saying "I wonder where this goes..." and breaking his neck.
Click to expand...
I seldom go for an option that requires a thought out action by a person.

I had a similar case at a plumbing supply establishment. There was a need to offload pipe onto the mezzanine. There was a stairway but it wouldn't facilitate the use of a forklift as would the door that was installed. The solution was a hatch. I don't see that working for this case.

Signs about a dangerous condition fall short of eliminating the dangerous condition. But hey, you can say, "We warned you"

When all is said and done, if one looks at it and gets the feeling that the work is not done, it's probably not done. In the case of perceiving danger for such a simple task as walking through a door, the project is not done.

The fact that you would paint the door yellow, provide a chain and signs says what exactly? It says here is something really dangerous. If someone gets hurt, the first question I would ask is "Why did you create such a danger". Then you can bring up your effort to prevent the accident. Didn't work but "Hey, we warned him. That's got to count for something". Well let's get back to who owns the dangerous condition. A mediocre lawyer could hang you with your own chain.
 
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Not brain surgery

Have an inswing gate with the access door swinging out

falling-man.jpg
 
mark handler said:
Not brain surgeryHave an inswing gate with the access door swinging out

falling-man.jpg
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They were smart enough to not warn anyone of the danger.
 
Once you are in that room you forget where you are.....Or someone moved the ladder.

Where is Darwin when you need him
 
mark handler said:
Once you are in that room you forget where you are.....Or someone moved the ladder.Where is Darwin when you need him
Click to expand...
There you go. That would be a cognition problem.
 
I am with Ice on this one. Doors require landings. Landings over 30 in. above the floor require guards. Put in a landing with guards (one removable). I had a similar issue years ago with a famous motorcycle racer who build a 2 story building to house his collection of bikes.
 
lpiburn - Are you proposing a solution now or are you waiting for the AHJ to deny a CO because of this door?
 
lpiburn said:
Thanks for the suggestions! I'm actually on the design team, not the AHJ, so I do need to be the one to suggest a solution. Also, the placement of some of the equipment prevents the door from swinging in, as well as some of the more sturdy solutions like the gates Fort linked to.At the moment I am thinking that if we paint the door safety yellow, chain across it, and provide warning signs both on the door and hanging from the chain then that should be sufficient to keep some poor maintenance guy from saying "I wonder where this goes..." and breaking his neck.
Click to expand...
Ok here is my question?

If you don't have the room to swing the door or even a bi-parting set of gates, then how does one get to this door balancing in a safe manner once the door is open?

Here is what you could think about, Bolt a guard in place that needs tools to be removed, since this door/access panel was only intended to bring a part in if needed, the ease of doing it needs not be just twist and go.

Fixed in place guard, what is the fuss about.

If the door was installed to make all access to area, meaning it has become the main access, then treat it that way and put a landing, guards and a service ladder!

Why over think it!
 
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