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egress window at bedroom?

Papio Bldg Dept said:
respectfully, and without going where previous and various versions of this question have taken us, what then in your opinion is the purpose of R104.1?
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It is to interpret what is there. Not to interpret what isn't.
 
Papio Bldg Dept said:
So how would you enforce it if the post was in the 36 inch minimum horizontal projection and width of a window well, but the window could still be fully opened? My frustration is that it appears 310.2 is so poorly written, that if I take it at its literal application (an "if it doesn't say it then it is silent" approach), then anything (posts, shrubs, etc), with exception for ladders and steps only (which are permitted to encroach a maximum of 6 inches), may encroach into that minimum horizontal area. R310.2 Window Wells. The minimum horizontal area of the window well shall be 9 square feet, with a minimum horizontal projection and width of 36 inches. The are of the window well shall allow the emergency escape and rescue opening to be fully opened. Exception: The ladder or steps required by Section R310.2.1 shall be permitted to encroach a maximum of 6 inches into the required dimensions of the window well. I give up.
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In this case, the section you previously cited gives the building official latitude to reasonable interpret "window well." That section doesn't allow "opening onto" to become a requirement for a clear path.

Keep in mind that the 22' drop onto concrete pavement from a third floor EERO is more of a hindrance than a fence post.

Unless you are going to require soft and fluffy pillows be installed.
 
brudgers said:
In this case, the section you previously cited gives the building official latitude to reasonable interpret "window well." That section doesn't allow "opening onto" to become a requirement for a clear path. Keep in mind that the 22' drop onto concrete pavement from a third floor EERO is more of a hindrance than a fence post. Unless you are going to require soft and fluffy pillows be installed.
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I am not suggesting an "opening onto" condition, merely a function of egress-ability, or being able to get out of a window, which, if I understand correctly, is the intent behind the bars, screens, and window well requirements (to keep people from getting stuck or pinned as they egress through the EER opening.

The 22' drop on to concrete, pillows or shrubbery doesn't even factor in if the 26' tall fence-post/flagpole is 6 inches out and directly centered on the EER opening.
 
Which came first, the window or the fence. The same concerns could be had regarding window air conditioner placed in the egress window. It is a tough call and sometimes advise and explaination is all you can offer with no code to back it up. Once people understand the situation, they tend to change the hazard with a code reference.
 
So, if a post encroaching into the required clear width of the EERO is OK, because the window itself meets the requirement, then I would have to accept anti-burglar grates over windows? Or, I can just side over the window, or install a masonry wall on the outside? After all, the window is there, as the code specifically requires. No, you can't prevent what happens after the inspection, but I think that the intent of the code that there is a net clear opening with at the area of the EERO.
 
"I think I'd rather climb down the fence post or slide down the flagpole than splat on the concrete"

If you can get out the EERO.............
 
brudgers said:
Keep in mind that the 22' drop onto concrete pavement from a third floor EERO is more of a hindrance than a fence post.
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Not for the fireman on a ladder outside the window trying to get in to haul an unconscious person out of that bedroom.
 
The purpose of an EERRO isn't really intended to provide ingress for fighters, although it's nice to have.......for example, if you installed code compliant bars on the exterior of your egress window, where would the unlatching mechanism be located?
 
beach said:
The purpose of an EERRO isn't really intended to provide ingress for fighters, although it's nice to have.......for example, if you installed code compliant bars on the exterior of your egress window, where would the unlatching mechanism be located?
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In the earlier code versions, (2003) extensive studies in San Diego were specifically cited in the commentary for fire personnell being able to get access, especially. You bring up a good point about the continued relevance of that reasoning. I am not sure if the ICC has updated their commentary in that regard for more recent code cycles.
 
2003 IRC Commentary - Volume 1

R310.1 (Paragraph 3) The dimensions prescribed in the code, and as illustrated in Commentary Figure 310.1 for exterior wall openings used for emergency and rescue, are based in part on extensive testing by the San Diego Building and Fire Departments to determine proper relationships of the height and width of window openings to adequately serve for both rescue and escape. The minimum of 20 inches for the width is based upon two criteria: the width necessary to place a ladder within the window opening and the width necessary to admit a fire fighter with full rescue equipment. (Continues)
 
Another example would be multiple bedroom windows appearing to be the same size where only one meets EERO requirements, which is pretty common around here..... During an incident, we would never know which is the egress window, we would typically just ingress (break) the window that we thought would be the most advantages.
 
beach said:
Another example would be multiple bedroom windows appearing to be the same size where only one meets EERO requirements, which is pretty common around here..... During an incident, we would never know which is the egress window, we would typically just ingress (break) the window that we thought would be the most advantages.
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Maybe they should just call them EEOs and omit the R altogether?
 
beach said:
The purpose of an EERRO isn't really intended to provide ingress for fighters, although it's nice to have.......for example, if you installed code compliant bars on the exterior of your egress window, where would the unlatching mechanism be located?
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Really? In Canada it is stated the intent is for both egress and entry. We had an argument with a daycare that had a sleeping room with an existing window that didn't meet egress that since both they and the children could fit through it that it should not be required. The fact that it was required for ingress as well as egress helped bring an end to that debate.
 
beach said:
The purpose of an EERRO isn't really intended to provide ingress for fighters, although it's nice to have.......for example, if you installed code compliant bars on the exterior of your egress window, where would the unlatching mechanism be located?
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I had a pot-on-the stove incident once (no flames yet, just lots of smoke). The owner had compliant bars installed over the windows. You should have seen the shocked look on his face when he came home and here are all these firefighters in his home and no damage to his door, windows or security bars. He asked how did we get in and I said through your window. He asked how did you get through the security bars? I just smiled and walked away.

And to be honest it didn't matter to us if windows were EERO's or not. We were taught to take a pike pole and break the glass, catch the center rail and pull frame and all out of the wall if you were doing rescue operations. Don't have to worry about broken glass or getting a large unconscious occupant out a small sash. If that didn't work a chain saw can create an opening quickly.
 
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles/nobody-40682-fighters-walton.html''>http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles/nobody-40682-fighters-walton.html' rel="external nofollow">

We were taught to take a pike pole and break the glass, catch the center rail and pull frame and all out of the wall if you were doing rescue operations. Don't have to worry about broken glass or getting a large unconscious occupant out a small sash. If that didn't work a chain saw can create an opening quickly.
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That will not work on iimpact resistant glass

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles/nobody-40682-fighters-walton.html
 
Agree with Mule. Obstructions are not expected in a yard, court, public way, etc.
 
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