Egress window maximum height

[TimNY]

The window opening is to be measured from the floor.(R310.1) A landing is also an acceptable equal to a floor.(R311.3 & 311.7.5) Residential landings must be a minium 36 deep. IMHO, the window seat would not qualify as a floor or landing. Not acceptable.

must... stop... from.. being... sucked.... in....

too late!

I will assume for a moment (although my opinion differs) that a single 6" difference in floor height is a stairway, as well as a single step up to a window seat is a stairway.

R311.5.4 ex. A floor or landing is not required at the top of an interior flight of stairs... provided a door does not swing over the stairs. So, landing not required.

There is no minimum dimension for a floor.

 

[David Henderson]

except it, or tell them 44" from Finished floor.

 

[Inspector Gift]

R310.1Where emergency escape and rescue openings are provided they shall have a sill height of not more than 44 inches (1118 mm) above the floor.

IMHO, neither a window seat or a step up to the window seat qualifies as a "floor".

(I am surprised that no one is questioning the definition for "sill"... )

 

[righter101]

What if they put flooring on it??

 

[righter101]

And it is designed to support a 30 # LL??

Hypothetically, lets say they put sleepers in 1/2 the room, raise the floor 7", encompassing the area under the window. That constitutes a floor right? Legal, code compliant. So just back those sleepers away from the wall a bit, reduce the size so its in the immediate vicinity of the window. Still a floor.

 

[TimNY]

IMHO, neither a window seat or a step up to the window seat qualifies as a "floor". (I am surprised that no one is questioning the definition for "sill"... )

Hey, it could go either way. I don't begrudge you your interp.. but if we're gonna toss out the imho's.. imho it's compliant

 

[NH09]

As long as the window seat is secured and wide enough so that someone can comfortably step on it and pass through the window I would approve it. It does not seem that the window seat would hinder egress.

 

[Grandpa]

I have had similar situations in the past, on new construction and existing. I allowed a step that was "premanently" attached, took pictures of the installation, documented it in our files and had it recorded on the deed in the event the "premanent" attachment ceased to exist. I felt that that was an acceptable alternative to meet the "intent" of the code and it was backed up at the time by an extinct organization called the ICBO.

 

[Architect1281]

I'm older and meaner.

1 history - High windows with smoke building down from the ceiling in a SLEEPING room

the requirement was devised to crawl on floor and reach for sill in a smoke filled room.

2 Emergency egress opening are really based on responder ingress dimensions (thankyou very mush FMBill)

so the measurement is to the floor and only the floor

not to a window seat, not to a landing, not to a step and landing

TO A FLOOR.

 

[righter101]

so the measurement is to the floor and only the floornot to a window seat, not to a landing, not to a step and landing

TO A FLOOR.

That is where this discussion and interpretation has led. What constitutes a floor?? We all agree that if they raised the entire floor 7 inches in just that room, the window would now be compliant. What if they raised the floor in the back half of the room only, 7 inches, encompassing the window area, having a step up in the middle of the room?? Still a floor?? Why can you not shrink that until it is just a smaller elevated floor at the window vicinity that provides for legal egress.

I appreciate your points, and reasons, and I believe this is one issue that will never bring both sides to a consensus, but it still good for me to hear all points of view. I didn't have any preconceived notions going in to this, rather wanted feedback on what others allow or consider a safe alternative.

If you are crawling on a floor in a smoke filled room, you can not reach 44 inches up anyway. Crawling until you bump into a step or bench would actually help indicate where you are and that you are close to your destination.

 

[TimNY]

Again.. I don't begrudge the "by the book" people, or as Arch puts it, the "older and meaner" people

Me.. I'm in the "reasonable" people category.

Having been in the fire service let me tell you what the general line of thinking was...

We don't trust anybody to build anything right. The first thing we do is put a tool down to the floor because we have no idea if you actually installed a floor there. Only 1 EERO opening is required to meet code. You could have 4 windows of the same size, 3 with window seats under them. Do you think we know which one to use? Those tot finder stickers on the window.. Don't even bother, we ignore them.

It's nice to say that we do certain things for the firefighters, because nobody would want to impede a firefighter. It's all well and good (and we do appreciate the big windows.. except when they have missileproof glass.. in which case if it's locked we're taking the whole unit out anyway). But we don't trust you. We won't use the hoses in your hose cabinets. If we can stretch a hose, we won't even use the standpipe.

Without aid, young school-aged children cannot reach the sash lock on a window with a 44" sill height. They cannot even get themselves up onto the sill.

So, you play the firefighter card, I'll play the children burning to death in a fire card. I'm not trying to berate anybody, but I speak from the heart. I've been through a window in scba and I've taught fire prevention and I would rather give the advantage to the kids than to myself. I'm not yelling at anybody, just passionate about kids getting out.

and yes, that is my arm

 

[righter101]

Wow, thanks Tim. You have given me a very good point of view, while respecting the opinions and interpretations of others. Have a great weekend.

 

[righter101]

And I'm guessing in the picture, that is a 44" sill??

I like the modern looking "milk crate" style flooring by the window.

 

[JBI]

Bottom line is, you've got to look at yourself in the mirror every morning, and sleep with your decisions every night. If you are comfortable doing those things, then chances are you made the right decision.

Part of the problem here is that the terminology is incorrect in the OP. It's not an 'egress' window, it's an 'emergency escape and rescue opening'. Unlike many here I am not a firefighter, but respect their work and their opinions on such matters greatly.

 

[TimNY]

And I'm guessing in the picture, that is a 44" sill?? I like the modern looking "milk crate" style flooring by the window.

That sill is 36" AFF.

 

[JBI]

When we built our current home in 1998, NYS was still using its' 'rogue' code and drop-down ladders were 'verbotten'. The kids window sills are too far above outside grade for jumping to be an option. When my wife was picking out mini-blinds at the big box store, I went and found the drop-down ladders. I had already researched them and knew what I wanted for ratings. The first few months in the house we did some EDITH dry runs. My then seven year old daughter was leary of dropping and climbing out onto the ladder, but with me in the room and my wife on the ground below we got her to drop the ladder and climb down.

The windows, including sill height met code; the presence of the ladders did not. I slept better at night knowing the ladders were there, and had no trouble justifying the violation to myself... my kids were that much safer.

 

[Architect1281]

A floor is the flat surface of a room upon which the occupancy occurs and it must be

at least 70 sf and hav a minimum dimendion of 7 feet

so if you want to have a 7 x 10 or an 8'-4 x 8'4 square, raised platform, floor like room segment

Knock yerself out

even then I would not argue its not a floor

 

[TimNY]

even then I would not argue its not a floor

Well then, there's no sense discussing the issue. I think we've reached a new threshold of unreasonableness if you would argue against your own definition of a floor.

Each room must have a habitable floor area of 70sf. Provided the rest of the room meets that requirement, I see no merit in that rationale.

 

[Architect1281]

Ok so I guess I'm unreasonable to have the required dimension from sill to floor

To begin a a location that meets the definition of a floor in an occupied space

and extend to the location defined as the sill of a window.

sorry but I believe that the basic tenants of the code egress path being a PRIME should not be excused, varied, or modified.

unreasonable on that one GUILTY AS CHARGED

here's you request for variance or waiver.

http://www.ribcc.ri.gov/documents/bcsc/Appeal%20Application.pdf

Now lets have that beer and I'll help you fill in the form

 

[Yankee]

A floor is the flat surface of a room upon which the occupancy occurs and it must beat least 70 sf and hav a minimum dimendion of 7 feet so if you want to have a 7 x 10 or an 8'-4 x 8'4 square, raised platform, floor like room segment Knock yerself out even then I would not argue its not a floor

The point being one needs to stand in front of the window ON something. If a landing of 3' x 3' is adequate for other purposes, the rest of your 7' x 10' floor is moot.

 

[TimNY]

Ok so I guess I'm unreasonable to have the required dimension from sill to floor

Whoah, back up.

A floor is the flat surface of a room upon which the occupancy occurs and it must be at least 70 sf and hav a minimum dimendion of 7 feeteven then I would not argue its not a floor

That's all I was referring to. You stated what you perceive to be the definition of floor.. and then you said you would argue that something meeting your definition of floor... was not a floor. That is the only thing I referred to as unreasonable.

If you want to be by-the-book, that is fine. If you have a certain interpretation of what a floor is, and the sill height doesn't meet your definition, then by all means it is your call.

I wouldn't try to justify it with the firefighter angle, for the reasons noted.

 

[Architect1281]

Sorry bout that TimNY I was backing up my a small platform is not a floor if its not that big

if someone went to the trouble to make the step / platform that big I'd probably loose my leverage

What's your favorite brew.

Think I've only got Harpoon or DogFish IPA left.

Time to go for a Turtle Wax

I've got to put some time in learning the edit clip paste process here TimnY s posts look so much better n mine

 

[TimNY]

No problem. Without tone of voice it is difficult to interpret the demeanor of posts.

If you're going to ESBOF in NJ, I'll take you up on that beer!

 

[Francis Vineyard]

I agree, when I have approved a wood platform (and it is to be 36"x36" at the "top" if more than one riser) I require bolting to the conc floor. not that it can't be removed, but they have just gone to a bit of work to get the bolts installed into the concrete, and hey , , , the platform isn't so bad anyway, , a stage for the puppet shows

This is what was done on a row of townhouses, no modification required.

IMHO, neither a window seat or a step up to the window seat qualifies as a "floor". (I am surprised that no one is questioning the definition for "sill"... )

A custom home builder asked about this and I explained how IBC and the IRC where written differently in regard with the opening and sill. He was turned down on the final even though technically correct the sill was 24 inches above the floor but the opening was about 54 inches similar to what’s shown in the picture with the bottom portion fixed.View attachment 397

View attachment 397

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