Equivalent Pool Alarm?

[Rick18071]

Code allows an equivalent way to guard the pool area besides the listed UL2017 pool alarm. How do I know if the pool alarm is equivalent just because of what it says on the cover of this pool alarm. I don't know what UL requires in the electronics, sound, etc. in an alarm and would not know what to check for. Would you approve this pool alarm?

 

[steveray]

It says UL 2017 on it.....?

 

[Paul Sweet]

ETL Intertek is a generally accepted third party testing lab. I don't think they would say "conforms to UL Std. 2017" if it didn't.

 

[Sifu]

I don't think the UL mark alone gets you there. It has to be listed and labeled as a water hazard entrance alarm. But if it is then I think it meets the code.

 

[jar546]

Here is a list of the currently approved NRTLs (Nationally Recognized Testing Labs)

OSHA's Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) Program - Current List of NRTLs | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

 

[jar546]

The code requires an alarm for a door or window to comply with UL2017. The product in your picture is listed and labeled by ETL, a recognized lab and is labeled for compliance with UL2017. Why would this not be approved if it was installed IAW manufacturers instructions?

 

[steveray]

Tell them to get you UL2017?

 

[Sifu]

Maybe it's a bad assumption, but a quick check of UL 2017 seems to indicate that there are different categories of products covered by the listing. So I don't know off the top of my head whether this particular product is intended for the proposed use. Based on what I know right now (admittedly not much) I would simply want to see the MFR specifications to see if it is covered under the correct category. I don't know if a door security alarm can serve as a life-safety device so unless the MFR specifications says it is I would want to make sure. As an example, I received a submittal for a water surface alarm as a pool barrier a few days ago, the submittal document says it meets ASTM F2208. I have enough knowledge of these devices to dig a little deeper. The product does meet that standard, but that standard does not cover the product for use as a pool barrier. If the MFR data of the device in the OP clearly says it is listed as a pool barrier or life-safety device then I have done my due diligence, if not, the question would be why. I'm just saying it may not be enough to just stop at the UL tag, especially for a device of a critical nature. As always, I could be wrong.



I don't have the full text of UL 2017, and I can't be sure the scope above means that all UL 2017 devices can be used as a residential water hazard entrance alarm, or only those shown to be in that category are.

 

[jar546]

I'm just saying it may not be enough to just stop at the UL tag, especially for a device of a critical nature. As always, I could be wrong.

This is where we get a little too involved and give fuel to Mark K. The code clearly states the alarm comply with UL2017. The product being used is a pool alarm that is listed and labeled and clearly states UL2017. Why do we need to involve ourselves any more than this? It is not our job to do background investigations on equipment that is provided by the contractor or owner.

R4501.17.1.9​

Where a wall of a dwelling serves as part of the barrier, one of the following shall apply:

1. 1.All doors and windows providing direct access from the home to the pool shall be equipped with an exit alarm complying with UL 2017 that has a minimum sound pressure rating of 85 dBA at 10 feet (3048 mm). Any deactivation switch shall be located at least 54 inches (1372 mm) above the threshold of the access. Separate alarms are not required for each door or window if sensors wired to a central alarm sound when contact is broken at any opening.
   Exceptions:
   1. a.Screened or protected windows having a bottom sill height of 48 inches (1219 mm) or more measured from the interior finished floor at the pool access level.
   2. b.Windows facing the pool on floor above the first story.
   3. c.Screened or protected pass-through kitchen windows 42 inches (1067 mm) or higher with a counter beneath.

 

[Rick18071]

1.All doors and windows providing direct access from the home to the pool shall be equipped with an exit alarm complying with UL 2017

Is there a difference? Code says Compiling with UL 2017, on the device it says Conforming with UL 2017.
It just seams fishy to me. If the manufacture wants to make something that complies to UL 2017 why didn't they just go to UL? Maybe they did and UL said it did not comply with their standards so they went to somebody else.

 

[Sifu]

This is where we get a little too involved and give fuel to Mark K. The code clearly states the alarm comply with UL2017. The product being used is a pool alarm that is listed and labeled and clearly states UL2017. Why do we need to involve ourselves any more than this? It is not our job to do background investigations on equipment that is provided by the contractor or owner.

R4501.17.1.9​

Where a wall of a dwelling serves as part of the barrier, one of the following shall apply:

1. 1.All doors and windows providing direct access from the home to the pool shall be equipped with an exit alarm complying with UL 2017 that has a minimum sound pressure rating of 85 dBA at 10 feet (3048 mm). Any deactivation switch shall be located at least 54 inches (1372 mm) above the threshold of the access. Separate alarms are not required for each door or window if sensors wired to a central alarm sound when contact is broken at any opening.
   Exceptions:
   1. a.Screened or protected windows having a bottom sill height of 48 inches (1219 mm) or more measured from the interior finished floor at the pool access level.
   2. b.Windows facing the pool on floor above the first story.
   3. c.Screened or protected pass-through kitchen windows 42 inches (1067 mm) or higher with a counter beneath.

The picture in the OP doesn't say what it is, just a picture of a device with a UL number. If that was submitted to me I would ask for the MFR specifications and make sure it is listed and labeled as a "water hazard entrance alarm", which is what ISPSC 305.4 #1 says it must be. It probably is, and should be very easy to demonstrate with installation instructions. The bar isn't that high for me on these codes, but since it is specifically called out in the code and my name gets attached to it, I figure the least I can do is make sure it is what they say it is. I am not questioning the fact that it complies with UL 2017, only that I don't know what that listing covers. Your code reference says "exit alarm", mine says "water hazard entrance alarm". Maybe this demonstrates that there is a difference?? Or not, but for me the installation instructions are a requirement, and they would probably tell the tale. In your neck of the woods you have way more pools, and I am sure way more expertise in them, so maybe you are way more familiar with them than me, but without that familiarity, I am going to ask for a little more.

 

[ICE]

Is there a difference? Code says Compiling with UL 2017, on the device it says Conforming with UL 2017.
It just seams fishy to me. If the manufacture wants to make something that complies to UL 2017 why didn't they just go to UL? Maybe they did and UL said it did not comply with their standards so they went to somebody else.

The website that Jeff provided lists the authorized NRTLs. If you click on the more button associated with each NRTL it takes you to a list of all the standards that the particular NRTL can evaluate products to. ETL is allowed to evaluate products to UL 2017.

Any NRTL that has that standard on thier list can evaluate and list the product.

I can say that not all NRTLs are equal in their evaluations. However it is an onerous task indeed to challenge a listing.

I have no familiarity with UL 2017. I do not know the requirements associated with the use of the alarm that you posted. I do have the requirements for an alarm installed to protect a swimming pool that is located in LA County jurisdiction:

An alarm installed on ail doors with direct access to the pool.The alarm shall sound continuously for a minimum of 30 seconds within 7 seconds after the door and its screen, if present, are opened, and be capable of providing a sound pressure level of not less than 85dBA when measured indoors at 14 feet. Tha alarm shall automatically rest under all conditions. The alarm system shall be equipped with a manual means, such as a touchpad or switch,to temporarily deactivate the alarm for a single opening. Such deactivation shall last no longer than 15 seconds.The deactivation switch shall be located at least
54 inches above the threshold of the door.