Existing Building vs New Construction work area method

[chrisrog]

Sometimes it is in the definitions

2012
[A] ALTERATION. Any construction or renovation to an existing structure other than repair or addition.

[A] REPAIR. The reconstruction or renewal of any part of an existing building for the purpose of its maintenance.

2015 IEBC
View attachment 8406
View attachment 8405
2018 IEBC
[A] ALTERATION. Any construction or renovation to an existing structure other than a repair or addition.
[A] REPAIR. The reconstruction, replacement or renewal of any part of an existing building for the purpose of its maintenance or to correct damage.

Our initial intention was to argue for repair. The last fire job like this I did was considered a repair by a different code official in a different jurisdiction. In the current project, when the owner decided to revise the kitchen layout in the affected units and not build back the wall separating the kitchen from the living area, the project became an alteration per the definition, so that's what we approached the BO with. He agreed until the point the fire marshal decided the exclusion for sprinkling in the IEBC was inconvenient, so they declared this a new build.

Thank you everyone who contributed to this thread. As expected, I saw several viewpoints expressed in the comments. Whether you came to the same conclusion regarding this project as I did or not, I appreciate the input.

 

[jar546]

I thought the 50% was about the footprint of the building and not the percentages of the building.

For example if there are 6 units per floor and 4 of the units on the first floor were damaged, it is not 4/12, it is the fact that more than 50% of the footprint of the building is the work area, therefore Level 3. Read definitions.

 

[Genduct]

You may be technically correct about the 50% BUT consider IT IS A NEW STRUCTURE YOU ARE BUILDING

So consider the existing Sawn Lumber and then consider the I Joist with that 3/8" OSB Web and tell me it has the same Fire/ Structural Characteristics

mtlogcabins suggestion makes sense
OPTION 3: Work for alteration, change of occupancy or addition of all existing buildings shall be done in accordance with the Performance Compliance Method given in Chapter 13. It should be noted that this option was also provided in the former Chapter 34 of the International Building Code (2012 and earlier editions).

Maybe You could negotiate with the AHJ to allow a 13D system with sawn lumber and a Fire Barrier as a compromise to the "Letter of the Code" After All, Aren't we trying to BUILD BACK BETTER ?
Where did I hear that said? Maybe that last remark might be too confusing in today's World of Tribal Politics

Let Us Know how you do with this Negotiation

 

[Genduct]

If a portion is gone...that means some building is left and therefore not a new building...And I am not super quick on calling it an addition either...

[A] ADDITION. An extension or increase in floor area or height of a building or structure.

But I see where one could...

You are Right BUT< I think that since this was Not a Voluntary Demo, the nature of the loss should be a factor.
Philly has language to address this kind of circumstance that allows some judgment to be applied

 

[mtlogcabin]

He agreed until the point the fire marshal decided the exclusion for sprinkling in the IEBC was inconvenient, so they declared this a new build.

And just where in the IEBC is the fire marshal have any authority to make that decision?

The intent of the IEBC is the similar to the legacy codes
2018IEBC
[A] 101.3 Intent.
The intent of this code is to provide flexibility to permit the use of alternative approaches to achieve compliance with minimum requirements to safeguard the public health, safety and welfare insofar as they are affected by the repair, alteration, change of occupancy, addition and relocation of existing buildings.

[A] 102.4 Referenced codes and standards.
The codes and standards referenced in this code shall be considered part of the requirements of this code to the prescribed extent of each such reference and as further regulated in Sections 102.4.1 and 102.4.2.

Exception: Where enforcement of a code provision would violate the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance, the conditions of the listing shall govern.

[A] 102.4.1 Conflicts.
Where conflicts occur between provisions of this code and referenced codes and standards, the provisions of this code shall apply.

[A] 102.4.2 Conflicting provisions.
Where the extent of the reference to a referenced code or standard includes subject matter that is within the scope of this code, the provisions of this code, as applicable, shall take precedence over the provisions in the referenced code or standard.

 

[Genduct]

And just where in the IEBC is the fire marshal have any authority to make that decision?

The intent of the IEBC is the similar to the legacy codes
2018IEBC
[A] 101.3 Intent.
The intent of this code is to provide flexibility to permit the use of alternative approaches to achieve compliance with minimum requirements to safeguard the public health, safety and welfare insofar as they are affected by the repair, alteration, change of occupancy, addition and relocation of existing buildings.

[A] 102.4 Referenced codes and standards.
The codes and standards referenced in this code shall be considered part of the requirements of this code to the prescribed extent of each such reference and as further regulated in Sections 102.4.1 and 102.4.2.

Exception: Where enforcement of a code provision would violate the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance, the conditions of the listing shall govern.

[A] 102.4.1 Conflicts.
Where conflicts occur between provisions of this code and referenced codes and standards, the provisions of this code shall apply.

[A] 102.4.2 Conflicting provisions.
Where the extent of the reference to a referenced code or standard includes subject matter that is within the scope of this code, the provisions of this code, as applicable, shall take precedence over the provisions in the referenced code or standard.

A jurisdictional situation where the Fire Marshall has EQUAL Powers to Bldg Code Official. Can't You Hear the Different Drummer ?

 

[Genduct]

A jurisdictional situation where the Fire Marshall has EQUAL Powers to Bldg Code Official. Can't You Hear the Different Drummer ?

PS We don't approve the Chap 1 Admin (Legal) as part of the Code Adoption for these kinds of reasons

Although it speaks to the Intent, so it does have Value

 

[mtlogcabin]

A jurisdictional situation where the Fire Marshall has EQUAL Powers to Bldg Code Official. Can't You Hear the Different Drummer ?

Somebody has to be able to make the final decision, Appeals Board, AHJ Attorney, The state

 

[Genduct]

Somebody has to be able to make the final decision, Appeals Board, AHJ Attorney, The state

My "Jailhouse Lawyer" instincts think that the Bldg Code Official and the Fire Marshall are Co-Equal and therefore the Citizen is the Monkey in the Middle.
You seem to suggest that someone Above Them might be of help. That would mean that that person really cared about this situation.
I guess I am Not An Optimist