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Exit Signage for pass thru from Sales Area

S

Stanovby

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Nov 5, 2013
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Baltimore, maryland
Is tactile signage required for a pass thru from a sales area that has an exit sign? I have some plan reviewer comments about the exit not having signage, but I am not sure if a pass thru is required to have signage or just the actual physical door. For instance how does someone who is blind find the exit without the tactile sign that they can feel. I've never seen anyone do this, but I am not totally sure if its required or not. I have some examples but its not letting me paste a photo into the post for some reason and I don't see an option for attaching it if its not from a website. If anyone knows how i can post the photos let me know. I thought i had done this before, (post a screenshot), but for some reason its not allowing me to do it.
 
2020 IBC

1013.4 Raised Character and Braille Exit Signs
Diagram
Where exit signs are provided at an area of refuge with direct access to a stairway, an exterior area for assisted rescue, an exit stairway or ramp, an exit passageway, a horizontal exit and the exit discharge, a sign stating "EXIT" in visual characters, raised characters and braille and complying with ICC A117.1 shall be provided.

It looks like you have described the door per the definitions below which is not on the list that requires Raised Character and Braille Exit Signs per above.

[BE] EXIT ACCESS. That portion of a means of egress system that leads from any occupied portion of a building or structure to an exit.
[BE] EXIT ACCESS DOORWAY. A door or access point along the path of egress travel from an occupied room, area or space where the path of egress enters an intervening room, corridor, exit access stairway or ramp.
 
Generally they are required at the "entrance to an exit"....a stair, the discharge, a horizontal exit. What you describe sounds like none of these...Lit sign maybe, but not braille. Sounds like an AI plan review...
 
steveray said:
Generally they are required at the "entrance to an exit"....a stair, the discharge, a horizontal exit. What you describe sounds like none of these...Lit sign maybe, but not braille. Sounds like an AI pla
Click to expand...

steveray said:
Generally they are required at the "entrance to an exit"....a stair, the discharge, a horizontal exit. What you describe sounds like none of these...Lit sign maybe, but not braille. Sounds like an AI plan review...
Click to expand...
yeah i thought that i could post photos here, like a screenshot but i am having trouble doing that
 
yeah. its a pass thru that separates the sales area & the stockroom. This is a Foot Locker that's located in a mall. There is a rear door exit in the rear of the stockroom & also an exit in what I am assuming is a fire rated corridor. It sounds like those areas are the only areas where the tactile signage is required. The physical doors that lead to the exit passageway & the exit discharge.
 
Is this like what you mean, and those two openings in back?
 

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bill1952 said:
Is this like what you mean, and those two openings in back?
Click to expand...
yeah. they usually have one or two openings that leads to the stockroom which leads to the rear door. With this particular store there is also a corridor that leads to an exit discharge that is outside of footlocker's space
 
Stanovby said:
If anyone knows how i can post the photos let me know.
Click to expand...
Adding images to posts is a feature that is only available to Sawhorses:

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Stanovby said:
For instance how does someone who is blind find the exit without the tactile sign that they can feel.
Click to expand...
That’s a good question. Here’s a video about finding braille signs, unfortunately he doesn’t mention what happens when there’s no sign:


At about 4:40 minutes he’s reading the sign shown in the preview image and finds a typo in the braille!
 
Can any of the inspectors reading this read brille?
Does any inspector check that the brille is right?
How can an inspector know it's right when the code does not indicate what language the brille needs to be?
 
Mr. Inspector said:
Can any of the inspectors reading this read brille?
Does any inspector check that the brille is right?
How can an inspector know it's right when the code does not indicate what language the brille needs to be?
Click to expand...

I think there's a brille conversion or scanner app on the market.

After reading this thread, it makes me feel like "Blind Billy" in dumb and dumber? Maybe I've been duped all these years when requesting ADA signage at bathroom doors?
 
I agree. I have said to many contractor/owners that I can't verify the braille, but if it's wrong the discrimination suit is not going to be filed against me.

I've been spending the past few minutes trying different apps on my phone, only found two that "scan" and neither of them has worked.
 
Yup. So, I could see looking at one or two signs, typing in the text, then see if the braille matches, but I doubt any building inspector is going to do that for every sign in a facility.
 
How are you defining your exit path thru the stock room? In CA you would need a door to be present for tactile signs to be required.
 
JPohling said:
How are you defining your exit path thru the stock room? In CA you would need a door to be present for tactile signs to be required.
Click to expand...
Hopefully like this:

5.Egress shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, closets or spaces used for similar purposes.

Exceptions:

2.Means of egress are not prohibited through stockrooms in Group M occupancies where all of the following are met:
  1. 2.1.The stock is of the same hazard classification as that found in the main retail area.
  2. 2.2.Not more than 50 percent of the exit access is through the stockroom.
  3. 2.3.The stockroom is not subject to locking from the egress side.
  4. 2.4.There is a demarcated, minimum 44-inch-wide (1118 mm) aisle defined by full- or partial-height fixed walls or similar construction that will maintain the required width and lead directly from the retail area to the exit without obstructions.
 
bill1952 said:
Interesting an exit sign is required over a cased opening you pass through but not braille signage.
Click to expand...

An exit sign is required at each end of an exit access corridor ending at a 90-degree bend, and at intervals along the corridor if longer than 100 feet, but the exit signs can be suspended from the ceiling and no braille is required until you reach the actual exit door..
 
SCBO1 said:
I think there's a brille conversion or scanner app on the market.

After reading this thread, it makes me feel like "Blind Billy" in dumb and dumber? Maybe I've been duped all these years when requesting ADA signage at bathroom doors?
Click to expand...
I think the blind individual was being open about how he sees the world around him. He appeared to be letting us know what it takes for him to decipher his environment and how he finds his way around. did you notice he knew that the elevator he chose way empty? how did he know that? I learned more about his world. i don't he is dumb and dumber.
 
Mr. Inspector said:
2020 IBC

1013.4 Raised Character and Braille Exit Signs
Diagram
Where exit signs are provided at an area of refuge with direct access to a stairway, an exterior area for assisted rescue, an exit stairway or ramp, an exit passageway, a horizontal exit and the exit discharge, a sign stating "EXIT" in visual characters, raised characters and braille and complying with ICC A117.1 shall be provided.

It looks like you have described the door per the definitions below which is not on the list that requires Raised Character and Braille Exit Signs per above.

[BE] EXIT ACCESS. That portion of a means of egress system that leads from any occupied portion of a building or structure to an exit.
[BE] EXIT ACCESS DOORWAY. A door or access point along the path of egress travel from an occupied room, area or space where the path of egress enters an intervening room, corridor, exit access stairway or ramp.
Click to expand...
ada requires braille and tactile signs at every require exit and at each entry of a permanent room or space.
 
So, in the example, some difference of opinion if braille signage is required next to the cased opening between the sales area and stock room area.
 
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