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Exterior door

Sifu

Sifu

SAWHORSE
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
3,384
I have a building design with tunnels leading from one interior enclosed courtyard to another interior enclosed courtyard. The walls forming the sides of the tunnel contain doors. These walls and doors are within the building horizontal projection (floors overhead), and separate the interior environment from the exterior environment in the tunnel. They are shown as 2-hr rated exterior walls on the plan (III-A construction). Per 2018 IBC 602.1, the doors in these walls are not required to be rated unless by another code. The design shows some doors with no rating, and some with rating, but I can't figure out why any rating would be required in a case like this. There is a fire wall creating two different buildings, but these are in the same building. Any ideas?
 
1020.1 Construction. Corridors shall be fire-resistance rated
in accordance with Table 1020.1. The corridor walls required
to be fire-resistance rated shall comply with Section 708 for
fire partitions.
Exceptions:
1. A fire-resistance rating is not required for corridors
in an occupancy in Group E where each room that is
used for instruction has not less than one door opening
directly to the exterior and rooms for assembly
purposes have not less than one-half of the required
means of egress doors opening directly to the exterior.
Exterior doors specified in this exception are
required to be at ground level.
2. A fire-resistance rating is not required for corridors
contained within a dwelling unit or sleeping unit in
an occupancy in Groups I-1 and R.
3. A fire-resistance rating is not required for corridors
in open parking garages.
4. A fire-resistance rating is not required for corridors
in an occupancy in Group B that is a space requiring
only a single means of egress complying with Section
1006.2.
5. Corridors adjacent to the exterior walls of buildings
shall be permitted to have unprotected openings on
unrated exterior walls where unrated walls are permitted
by Table 602 and unprotected openings are
permitted by Table 705.8.
 
There are several doors. Some lead from the interior corridors, some from other spaces that don't communicate with the corridors. Not sure the corridor rating would apply. Some are rated, some are not, and I can't find any reason for this.

None of the interior exit paths cross or lead to the courtyards or use the tunnel between the courtyards. They provide no minor details such as use, occupant load, or any MOE from the courtyards. That is a whole separate issue for them.

Generally, this plan is a hot mess.
 
Sifu said:
None of the interior exit paths cross or lead to the courtyards or use the tunnel between the courtyards. They provide no minor details such as use, occupant load, or any MOE from the courtyards. That is a whole separate issue for them.

Generally, this plan is a hot mess.
Click to expand...
This is not minor details. I will not do a plan review without a egress plan showing the occupant load of each space and the egress travel distance and route.
 
I know they are not minor details, just providing a little sarcasm. This is a large facility, which includes the two courtyards. Unfortunately they completely excluded everything in the courtyards, just some greyed outlines, with no other info such as OL, MOE etc. One of them is a pool, so I guess they figured that would be a separate permit so they didn't need to show it on the plans. This is just one of the many deficiencies I have identified. I was attempting to answer Steveray's question about them being egress courts.

The are not underground tunnels, they are grade level with 4 stories above them.

Large pic, but best I can do.

1682443725139.png
 
I am pretty tight on getting them to call out rated walls for their function, I.E. 2 hour fire barrier, and that helps and is need to determine support (for a FB) structural independence (for a FW) 2 hour bearing wall, and so on....
 
The fire walls separate the plan north side from the plan south side. You can see how they jog and use a dual swing door, also being use as a horizontal exit. I have problems with the fire wall, as they are both bearing and constructed of wood....those comments are separate. As for corridors, I'm not sure. By definition, a corridor is enclosed, if anything they would be open ended corridors, but by definition those connect to a stair or ramp. The plans indicate that the walls are 2-hr exterior walls, which is fine. And by 602.1 the they wouldn't be required to have protected openings. I guess it boils down to what they are doing. This designer rates some, in some conditions, doesn't rate some in other conditions, and worse yet, isn't consistent in doing either. I can only chalk it up them not really paying close attention and just dropping labels on doors in an arbitrary manner. There are so many issues like this I am losing track.
 
With the FW and the jogged exterior, watch out for FSD and openings<180....seems like there are a few of those where the exterior doors will need to be rated....
 
I have seen the tunnel that is called Paseo required by a few jurisdictions for fire department access to the courtyards. They sometimes require this to be protected by as much as a 2-hour rating. In that case, the design usually shows the tunnel almost as if it is an exit passageway.

For clarification of my perspective, I’m an architect who does QC reviews for other architects.
 
Jay Smith said:
I have seen the tunnel that is called Paseo required by a few jurisdictions for fire department access to the courtyards. They sometimes require this to be protected by as much as a 2-hour rating. In that case, the design usually shows the tunnel almost as if it is an exit passageway.

For clarification of my perspective, I’m an architect who does QC reviews for other architects.
Click to expand...
Ahhhh....touch the badge, feel the power.....
 
The ones that serve as exit access from corridors serving apartments would still need 20 minute rated doors.

IBC Table 1020.1 requires 1/2 hour fire rating, and and Table 716.1(2) requires 20 minute doors.
 
Agree with everyone. Some are rated, some are not. All are 2-hr walls. They are exit access paths, just didn't bother to tell me how many people and such. I have lost count of the comments. Uh-Oh.....the designer is from TX. Jay smith, can I give them your number?! Maybe you could QC them to start with the correct AHJ.
 
Be sure that the stairway egress meets the 50% rule for sprinklered buildings and that travel distances are within reaonable distance as allowed by the code- if the 50% rule is not met, or if travlel distance is not met, the egress may become hortizontal egress ( passgeway - vertical stairway on a hortizontal plane) without having plans or cad drawing for accurate scaling, it is hard to actually determine. Besides, it is the designer's responsibilty to prove code compliance.
 
We call large/ main corridors Paseo's in SD's, but change it to just 'corridor' in CD's, since, as far as I know, it's not code defined. Sort of like calling a room 'Steve's Office' in SD's, but then changing it to just 'Office' in CD's. Guess I better look now...
 
I have a question about this tunnel as exterior - Let's say you have a corridor that terminates into a tunnel at both ends. And let's say there are no other exits from that corridor. There are no stairway entrances or horizontal exits. Does that comply with the corridor continuity requirement in 2021 IBC 1020.7?
 
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