Exterior Exit Stairs Unenclosed/Uncovered

[fj80]

2015 IBC
Two-story banquet facility
Construction Type: VB
Wood frame construction
Fully Sprinklered

Exterior exit stairs from the second floor do not need to be covered or enclosed, correct?

 

[mtlogcabin]

correct

 

[steveray]

Maybe....How are the being maintained?

1011.7.2 Outdoor conditions. Outdoor stairways and outdoor approaches to stairways shall be designed so that water will not accumulate on walking surfaces.

And you are going to fire rate the exterior wall for exterior area for assisted rescue right?

 

[RLGA]

It wouldn't be "exterior" if it was enclosed.

However, the wall between the exterior exit stairways and the building interior must be rated per Section 1027.6. You can have exterior exit access stairways that have no protection, provided the travel distance is measured to the level of exit discharge.

 

[fj80]

Maybe....How are the being maintained?

1011.7.2 Outdoor conditions. Outdoor stairways and outdoor approaches to stairways shall be designed so that water will not accumulate on walking surfaces.

And you are going to fire rate the exterior wall for exterior area for assisted rescue right?

Proposed idea is a wood stair so water would drain off between boards.

Yes, fire rated wall at area for assisted rescue.

 

[Sleepy]

We sometimes have to wrestle with an AHJ suggestion that the outdoor landing and stairs need to be covered to prevent the accumulation of snow or ice. We argue that snow deep enough to actually block the door is rare in our area, and anyway the building management would have procedures for clearing snow.

IBC 1001.3 Maintenance. "Means of egress shall be maintained in accordance with the International Fire Code."

IFC 1031.3 Obstructions. "A means of egress shall be free from obstructions that would prevent its use, including the accumulation of snow and ice"

 

[ADAguy]

Space between boards? No open risers allowed.

 

[fj80]

Space between boards? No open risers allowed.

Not open risers.I'm referring to the tiny gaps between boards used at the landing and stair treads. Water will drain through these gaps just like any typical residential deck/stair construction.

 

[ADAguy]

Just making sure

 

[mtlogcabin]

or these

 

[ADAguy]

I see a tread, what of the risers?

 

[mtlogcabin]

Not all stairs are part of an accessible means of egress and therefore not all stairs are required to have solid risers. The OP did not indicate if the exterior stairs are meeting the means of egress stair requirements and if they are the second or third exit from this second floor


1009.7.5.3 Solid risers.
Risers shall be solid.

Exceptions:

1. Solid risers are not required for stairways that are not required to comply with Section 1007.3, provided that the opening between treads does not permit the passage of a sphere with a diameter of 4 inches (102 mm).

1007.3 Stairways.
In order to be considered part of an accessible means of egress, a stairway between stories shall have a clear width of 48 inches (1219 mm) minimum between handrails and shall either incorporate an area of refuge within an enlarged floor-level landing or shall be accessed from either an area of refuge complying with Section 1007.6 or a horizontal exit. Exit access stairways that connect levels in the same story are not permitted as part an accessible means of egress.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

2 story VB B existing building IEBC alteration level 3. What use to be an attic (2nd floor) will now have offices and they want to use a exterior exit stairway as an exit.

2015 IBC
1027.6 Exterior exit stairway and ramp protection. Exterior
exit stairways and ramps shall be separated from the
interior of the building as required in Section 1023.2.

I'm confused, Section 1023.2 does not say anything about protection of exterior exit protection:

1023.2 Construction. Enclosures for interior exit stairways
and ramps shall be constructed as fire barriers in accordance
with Section 707 or horizontal assemblies constructed in
accordance with Section 711, or both. Interior exit stairway
and ramp enclosures shall have a fire-resistance rating of not
less than 2 hours where connecting four stories or more and
not less than 1 hour where connecting less than four stories.
The number of stories connected by the interior exit stairways
or ramps shall include any basements, but not any mezzanines.
Interior exit stairways and ramps shall have a fireresistance
rating not less than the floor assembly penetrated,
but need not exceed 2 hours.
Exceptions:
1. Interior exit stairways and ramps in Group I-3 occupancies
in accordance with the provisions of Section
408.3.8.
2. Interior exit stairways within an atrium enclosed in
accordance with Section 404.6.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

forgot to tell you the exterior stairway will be new.

 

[steveray]

Poorly written, but basically rate the common wall as you would if it were an interior wall...Remember, you are protecting the exit from the rest of the building....And don't forget to look at the exterior area for assisted rescue stuff in accessible MOE...

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Existing building so no MOE required.
Does it matter how far the exterior stairway is from the exterior wall? It's 3 1/2 feet away. Does the top landing that is against the building matter?
Still confused. 1 hour per 1023.2 I guess but where do I find how far does the rated wall need to go from the stairway and the framing underneath vertical and horizontal?

 

[steveray]

801.3 Compliance. All new construction elements, components, systems, and spaces shall comply with the requirements of the International Building Code.

Now that they added this, correct...As much as I don't agree with it....

1009.1 Accessible means of egress required. Accessible
means of egress shall comply with this section. Accessible
spaces shall be provided with not less than one accessible
means of egress. Where more than one means of egress are
required by Section 1006.2 or 1006.3 from any accessible
space, each accessible portion of the space shall be served by
not less than two accessible means of egress.
Exceptions:
1. Accessible means of egress are not required to be
provided in existing buildings.

But I think the route is still required....Which has you putting in an elevator....No?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Yes they are putting in an elevator for an accessible route. But since accessible egress is not required the elevator won't have standby power or a area of refuge.

 

[steveray]

This is a bad change in the IBC...IMO, if you put in "new" egress there is not reason to not make it accessible....

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I could never figure out why the accessible provisions of the code is more strict about accessible routes to get in than to get out.

 

[steveray]

Most of the time you have a rated stair which can be an AMOE.....Usually by the time you get an elevator anyway....Generally it's just the exterior stairs like this where it may be a problem, again as most new interior stairs will be rated....

 

[jhouck]

It wouldn't be "exterior" if it was enclosed.

However, the wall between the exterior exit stairways and the building interior must be rated per Section 1027.6. You can have exterior exit access stairways that have no protection, provided the travel distance is measured to the level of exit discharge.

RLGA, trying to understand how an exterior exit access stair works. I have a 3-story, R-2 Occupancy building in California (CBC 2022) that has 2 "exterior" stairs off a egress balconies on 2nd and 3rd floors (some portions of these balconies are double loaded and must be called corridors due to lack of openness). These stairs are enclosed on 3 sides (only open towards the egress balcony) which is causing problems if we call them Exterior Exit Stairs. We'd need to open them up to yard which we can do but the 35sf open area at each level and intermediate landing is basically making it completely open one side (structural issues with the current design).

If we can meet exit access travel distance to the exit (lobby door at grade), can we call these exteriors stairs "exit access stairways"? If we go this approach, do these stairs need to be fully enclosed in a 1-hr shaft since they are semi-enclosed and could be considered floor openings? Struggling to find the best appraoch to satisfy code and maintain the design intent.

 

[jhouck]

Anyone have any thoughts on my post above?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I would thing the California guys would need a drawing to know what you are talking about.