• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Fire Marshals, Builders At Odds Over Bill To Require Sprinklers In New Homes

Sue:

Thanks for that, but it doesn't look good:

SB726 said:
Vote: majority. Appropriation: no. Fiscal committee: no. State-mandated local program: no.
Click to expand...
Perhaps we should all contact our State Senators and explain the Minneapolis fraud, give them the copies of the bribe information, illegal under California statute, but it's going to be hard to counteract the vast sums of money donated to their campaigns by the sprinkler coalition and the firefighters' union.
 
Sue

Sprinklers would only be required in manufactured homes if the local authority specifically required them where they have jurisdiction.

Outside of parks:

Local jurisdiction may require them.

Inside of parks.

If the park is under state jurisdiction sprinklers are not required.

If the park is under local jurisdiction sprinklers may be required.

The latest Information bulletin from HCD is here:

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/codes/mhp/infobulls.html
 
Perhaps we should all contact our State Senators and explain the Minneapolis fraud, give them the copies of the bribe information, illegal under California statute, but it's going to be hard to counteract the vast sums of money donated to their campaigns by the sprinkler coalition and the firefighters' union.
Click to expand...
CONARB, I thought the FBI was going to investigate????:beatdhrs
 
I find it hard to believe California legislators passed the requirement that sprinkler tradesmen must be Union. Requiring Union on all work must be unconstitutional somehow. If a licensed person quits the union, is he really now unqualified for the work?

I designed one rural house a few years ago that due to local regulations required sprinklers. In this case the home owner took a class on installation and did the work himself.
 
Mark:

Let me qualify that, what they did was require that anyone installing sprinkler systems be enrolled in, or be a graduate of, the state apprenticeship program, the apprenticeship programs are all run by and administered by the unions. I would suppose that a guy could spend 4 years in the apprenticeship program, graduate, and then become a non-union sprinkler fitter, while enrolled in the apprenticeship program he would have to be employed by a union contractor.
 
Beach said:
Our just-retired fire marshal is installing fire sprinklers in his house by himself as we speak.....
Click to expand...
Where did he buy them? It's my understanding that they won't sell them to anyone other than a licensed sprinkler contractor, I Googled and see that there are some on eBay for $2 a piece.

I once did a cafeteria kitchen addition to a school, the plumbing contractor offered to extend the iron pipe and install the sprinklers as designed by the FPE, a sprinkler contractor threatened to turn me into the license board if I subcontracted the sprinklers to anyone other than a licensed sprinkler contractor, so I gave him the job not wanting any trouble.
 
CO passed similar legislation last year.......our Chapter worked to get P2904 systems specifically exempted from the law. Only made sense, since you would have to be a licensed plumber to touch P2904 installations in CO. Course, now the State Plumbing Board is trying to pass a rule that only licensed plumbers can then inspect a P2904 system. What a clusterfvck this crap is turning into. :banghd
 
CONARB,

I'm not sure where he bought them, if ebay is selling used heads, they can't be reused. I'm not aware of any laws pertaining to suppliers selling only to licensed contractors. I do know he bought the riser assembly from a local supply house a year ago. I'll bet you'll be seeing Home depot selling them before long..... at least in California.

EDIT: It looks like ebay has quite a selection of heads: http://cgi.ebay.com/56-White-Reliable-Brand-Fire-Sprinkler-heads-w-Extras-/160558900525?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item25620e652d
 
beach said:
CONARB,I'm not sure where he bought them, if ebay is selling used heads, they can't be reused. I'm not aware of any laws pertaining to suppliers selling only to licensed contractors. I do know he bought the riser assembly from a local supply house a year ago. I'll bet you'll be seeing Home depot selling them before long..... at least in California.

EDIT: It looks like ebay has quite a selection of heads: http://cgi.ebay.com/56-White-Reliable-Brand-Fire-Sprinkler-heads-w-Extras-/160558900525?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item25620e652d
Click to expand...
The heads appear to be new, not reused.
 
I've heard that the sprinkler coalition keeps them tied up so the public can't buy them in the interest of safety, I've also heard that the Chinese are making counterfeit sprinkler heads, I saw pictures some time back where they counterfeited the UL label with Ul instead of UL, so inspectors have to be aware of this to distinguish the counterfeit from approved heads. There is enormous profit in this corrupt industry and they want to keep it this way, why do you think the coalition has spent so much money to get them mandated?

UL said:
On the product: The word "Globe" appears on the product. Sprinklers with the counterfeit UL Mark are manufactured with a slot-head screw and Job F5 or Job FR glass bulb. Non-counterfeit UL-Listed sprinklers manufactured by Globe Fire Sprinkler Corp. contain a hex-head screw and a Job G5 or F3 glass bulb. ¹
Click to expand...
With the failure rate of Tyco's Mexican made sprinklers somewhere north of 20% can the counterfeit heads be much worse?

¹ http://afaa-ne.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=122
 
Last edited by a moderator:
conarb said:
Where did he buy them? It's my understanding that they won't sell them to anyone other than a licensed sprinkler contractor, I Googled and see that there are some on eBay for $2 a piece. Johnny Cash "One Piece at a Time"
Click to expand...
 
In CA a home owner may still install a sprinkler system he just can't design it
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that..... 2010 Calif. res. code section R313 provides very simple design parameters using that sections prescriptive methods with simple equations and tables. Section R313 allows a choice of the prescriptive method (eight simple steps) per that section or in accordance with NFPA 13D, users choice.

If a homeowner brought me a simple sprinkler plan he designed per the 2010 CRC section R313, I would probably accept it. It's not rocket science.

We can quote experiences from ten, fifteeen, or even just two years ago but that is all past history, things have changed and we need to stay in the present.
 
beach said:
I'm not so sure about that..... 2010 Calif. res. code section R313 provides very simple design parameters using that sections prescriptive methods with simple equations and tables. Section R313 allows a choice of the prescriptive method (eight simple steps) per that section or in accordance with NFPA 13D, users choice. If a homeowner brought me a simple sprinkler plan he designed per the 2010 CRC section R313, I would probably accept it. It's not rocket science.

We can quote experiences from ten, fifteeen, or even just two years ago but that is all past history, things have changed and we need to stay in the present.
Click to expand...
Beach

I stand corrected; I misinterpreted an interpretation by the SFM.

The authority for an "owner-builder of an owner occupied, single-family dwelling" is in B&P 7026.12.
 
There are two issues here, who can design the system and who can install it. The section quoted in the Business & Professions code has to do with the regulation of contractors.

As long as an engineer or architect is not required to design the residence anybody can design the sprinkler system as long as they comply with the code and do not violate the laws regulating the practice of engineering and architecture..

I contend that even without the exemption in B&P 7026.12 the homeowner could install the sprinkler system if he did the work or directly supervised the installation. Contractor licensing laws are about protecting the consumer from incompetent or dishonest contractors. If the homeowner does the work therre is no contractor to protect him from.
 
Mark K

There are two issues here, who can design the system and who can install it.

The key to the design and installation is already in the IRC

1) Design...Section 106 in the Administrative section empowers the AHJ to require a competent designer and design submittal

2) Section 106 demands a "Recognized design professional" who is defined in the definations section of the IRC

3) The system is to be designed and installed as detailed in P-2904

4) The plumbers and plumbing inspectors are fully empowered by the IRC to install and inspect

The entire system and its design seems to be a well thought out plan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top