Fire separation required between B and exterior court with Assembly areas (seating areas and pool with deck)?

[rjjh]

Probably over thinking this… but I am working on a hotel clubhouse (detached from the dwelling units) with B occupancy use for conference rooms and offices, wrapping around 2 courtyards containing assembly seating areas in the middle, and the second court containing a large fenced in exterior pool (15,000sf). So, will 1hr fire separations per table 508.4 be required between the B interior and exterior pool (i assume A-3?) and exterior patio assembly/seating spaces?

see link below for a quick schematic plan and markups. Tips much appreciated!

Plan link

 

[steveray]

Is it mixed non-separated?

 

[rjjh]

Is it mixed non-separated?

i probably need to determine that first it looks like it could be. it's within the allowable area/height for the most restrictive occupancy (A-3), and if i design the clubhouse to that, no separations required? or is there anything that i should consider to not make it mixed non-seprated?

 

[steveray]

It's a little weird because the courtyard may not count as building area, but it would be a fire area.....

 

[rjjh]

It's a little weird because the courtyard may not count as building area, but it would be a fire area.....

so would the exterior walls abutting the pool fire area need to maintain 2hr fire resistance (per table 707.3.10) if mixed non-separated?
if so, could we reduced the pool area and occupant load below 300 would that solve the issue?

 

[my250r11]

I'm not sure I would be concerned about the pool area if it had a little more room from the wall. Trying to protect the occupants from a building on fire not the pool, lol

 

[rjjh]

I'm not sure I would be concerned about the pool area if it had a little more room from the wall. Trying to protect the occupants from a building on fire not the pool, lol

im not concerned about the pool... but the all the fixed seating booths and areas around the pool perimeter and right ajacent to the other occuapancies

 

[steveray]

If you are nonseparated, then you are nonseparated......

 

[rjjh]

If you are nonseparated, then you are nonseparated......

got it, no separations between occupancies. would we need fire ratings within 10' of the paths of egress running through the courtyard spaces from the exterior wall of the building?

 

[Yikes]

To answer your question, look at 508.1 for scope and applicability:
"Where a building contains more than one occupancy group, the building or portion thereof shall comply with the applicable provisions of Section 508.2, 508.3 or 508.4, or a combination of these sections."

Now let's look at 202 definition of "building":

BUILDING. Any structure utilized or intended for supporting or sheltering any occupancy.​

​

AREA, BUILDING. The area included within surrounding exterior walls, or exterior walls and fire walls, exclusive of vent shafts and courts. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the building area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above.​

Since the pool area is exterior and does not have a roof, it is not part of the "a building" clubhouse. The pool is either:

• not a building at all, or
• it is a second, physically separated "structure", where the pool wall is below grade and is made of gunite and earth, meeting both fire separation and opening protectives (no openings in pool wall - - that's why it holds water!).

Therefore, I don't think you need the occupancy separation.

For an analogy, here I leave you with a picture of Vin Scully in a "B" occupancy broadcast booth with a full opening (no glass) into A-5 occupancy Dodger Stadium.