Flame spread ratings for high-speed fabric doors - required?

[cda]

Dave

Not sure how up on codes you are, so

In codes we start with the thing we are looking at.

Than look at the code book to see if it applies to what is being looked at.

One thing that is used is the "Scope" of the code and Chapter in question.

Once again the Scope of Chapter 8:

SECTION 801 GENERAL

801.1 Scope. Provisions of this chapter shall govern the use of materials used as interior finishes, trim and decorative materials.

This chapter contains requirements for materials used as interior finish, trim or decorative materials. These materials must conform to the flame spread index limitations, the heat release and flashover limitations or flame propogation limitations established by this chapter. This chapter is similar to Chapter 8 of the International Fire Code® (IFC®) in intent but is focused only on new construction and only on interior finish, trim and a limited amount of decorative materials. The IFC addresses both new and existing buildings and also some key building contents.

And once again definitions:::

INTERIOR WALL AND CEILING FINISH. The exposed interior surfaces of buildings, including but not limited to: fixed or movable walls and partitions; toilet room privacy partitions; columns; ceilings; and interior wainscoting, paneling or other finish applied structurally or for decoration, acoustical correction, surface insulation, structural fire resistance or similar purposes, but not including trim.

A material that is applied to ceilings as well as walls, columns, partitions (including the privacy partitions in bathrooms that could pose a significant threat in larger bathrooms if unrated) and other vertical interior surfaces whether fixed or movable. The application of this material may be for structural, decorative, acoustical, structural fire resistance and other similar reasons. Trim, such as baseboard, door or window casing, is not considered interior wall and ceiling finish. Interior wall and ceiling finish is regulated by Section 803.

And if you read, it tends to be more "Applied to"

I still think that Chapter 8 does not apply to your situation

Even Section 806:::

There are no F or S, which it sound like what your occupancy is, in the "General Requirements"::

SECTION 806 DECORATIVE MATERIALS AND TRIM [F]

806.1 General requirements. In occupancies in Groups A, E, I and R-1 and dormitories in Group R-2, curtains, draperies, hangings and other decorative materials suspended from walls or ceilings shall meet the flame propagation performance criteria of NFPA 701 in accordance with Section 806.2 or be noncombustible. [F]

In Groups I-1 and I-2, combustible decorative materials shall meet the flame propagation criteria of NFPA 701 unless the decorative materials, including, but not limited to, photographs and paintings, are of such limited quantities that a hazard of fire development or spread is not present. In Group I-3, combustible decorative materials are prohibited.

Fixed or movable walls and partitions, paneling, wall pads and crash pads applied structurally or for decoration, acoustical correction, surface insulation or other purposes shall be considered interior finish if they cover 10 percent or more of the wall or of the ceiling area, and shall not be considered decorative materials or furnishings.

In Group B and M occupancies, fabric partitions suspended from the ceiling and not supported by the floor shall meet the flame propagation performance criteria in accordance with Section 806.2 and NFPA 701 or shall be noncombustible.

 

[Dave Bender]

I am enjoying the dialogue in this forum – thank you all for your offerings!

I have had sporadic opportunities to read and respond – I appreciate your patience.

Reviewer has keyed into this part of the definition – “…movable walls and partitions…”

Comments:

Fabric door acts as a movable wall or partition – so falls under interior wall finish.

The same fabric adhered to the adjacent fixed wall would be a wall treatment would need the same flame spread rating.

“A large American flag” hung over the opening, hung on the wall, or hung in the middle of the room would be a decorative material, and subject to requirements of Sec 806.

 

[cda]

I am enjoying the dialogue in this forum – thank you all for your offerings!I have had sporadic opportunities to read and respond – I appreciate your patience.

Reviewer has keyed into this part of the definition – “…movable walls and partitions…”

Comments:

Fabric door acts as a movable wall or partition – so falls under interior wall finish.

The same fabric adhered to the adjacent fixed wall would be a wall treatment would need the same flame spread rating.

“A large American flag” hung over the opening, hung on the wall, or hung in the middle of the room would be a decorative material, and subject to requirements of Sec 806.

Ok my next suggestion is to talk to his boss, if there is one.

Or hire a code consultant or Fire Protection Engineer, to look at it, advise you and talk to the AHJ

Ok my other thought is that " it is a door"

Even the manufacture agrees """"Rite-Hite, Fastrax-XL door)""""

 

[cda]

the other thought and what I like to do.

Get a piece and see if it will burn

if it does burn, does it sustain combustion???

So if you have a piece you can get, or ask the supplier to send you one, see what happens.

If it does not burn or does not sustain combustion, can help your case

 

[Dave Bender]

More good suggestions!

Not quite ready to go to reviewer’s boss till I’ve built up the case a little better.

We do have a code consultant on retainer, and I may go to him after the holidays.

And we are considering requesting a code clarification from IBC.

Rite-Hite has contacted their fabric supplier to get information about getting ASTM testing set up.

They commented that they may not be able to pass the test.

Rytec door fabrics can pass flame spread index but not smoke development index.

I am also seeing if there are coatings that can be applied.

One may be promising.

What I really would like to find is a source that can state “this is not required because…”

Thanks again for the participation - happy holidays to all!

 

[north star]

$ : $



O.K., ...so you have a wall with high speed roll up doors on

one side..........What if you had fire rated, coiled doors

installed above the door openings on the opposite side of

this wall ?.........Instead of trying to find a rated fabric,

how about just protecting the openings themselves

[ RE: Section 716.5, `12 IBC ] ?

$ : $

 

[cda]

$ : $

O.K., ...so you have a wall with high speed roll up doors on

one side..........What if you had fire rated, coiled doors

installed above the door openings on the opposite side of

this wall ?.........Instead of trying to find a rated fabric,

how about just protecting the openings themselves

[ RE: Section 716.5, `12 IBC ] ?

$ : $

Either I am lost or

He already has the required rated overhead door in the rated wall

He is adding the high speed fabric door,,, in addition to the rated opening protection,

The plan reviewer is calling the high speed door a " movable wall""

 

[north star]

@ ~ @



Even if the wall is moveable, ...the opening(s) in that wall

would be protected with the coiled, fire rated doors installed

on the other side.

Maybe Mr. Bender can clarify this application some more.

Also, ...maybe I am lost too ! :grin:

@ ~ @

 

[cda]

@ ~ @

Even if the wall is moveable, ...the opening(s) in that wall

would be protected with the coiled, fire rated doors installed

on the other side.

Maybe Mr. Bender can clarify this application some more.

Also, ...maybe I am lost too ! :grin:

@ ~ @

Ok I think we have the same picture

Now it is down to does chapter 8 even apply to the high speed curtain/door???

If so why??